Unexplainable behaviour Max 2017 after installing Creator's Update

[Judith.Hageman]

Hi,

I have been working on a scene for the last 2 weeks, with not more than the usual crashes of Max that I am used to by now.

Since I have installed the Creator's Update, 2 days ago, I have some odd and unexplainable behaviour in that same scene.

Slow reaction on selections, wrong selections, an odd looking Perspective in Perspective view. Max doesn't crash, so I can't send in a crash report, but I end up restarting Max to get ride of it.

Anyone has the same experience? Is there something to fix this?

J.

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

Hello @Judith.Hageman,

I'd like to help with this.  I don't have any experience with this problem, so I have some questions to help me narrow things down.

1) What does weird perspective mean?  Would it be possible to post a screenshot please?  (Thanks!)

2) When you say wrong selections, what does that look like?  

3) If you boot Windows into Safe Mode, do the problems persist in 3ds Max? 

4) What is your current Anti-Virus software?   Do you hear the hard drive working when you make selections? 

5) Does Max take longer to load than normal?  

6) Is there anything else that may be relevant?  

Thanks for taking the time to answer those, I'm looking to collect as much information as possible.

Best Regards,

[Judith.Hageman]

Hello @Alfred.DeFlaminis,

Thanks for you reply.

Many questions to answer, but I don't have time to work with Max at the moment.

I will get back to you as soon as I can.

Cheers,

J.

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

Ok no problem @Judith.Hageman, thanks for the update.  Hope the project comes out great!  

Best Regards,

[Judith.Hageman]

Hello @Alfred.DeFlaminis,

Finally have some time to answer (some) of your questions.

First of all: it's not only Max with problems, Inventor shows unstable as well! It crashes on me 4 to 6 times a day without notice and sometimes even without the possibility to send a crash report.

Your questions:

ad 1) I thought that may be my scene was just corrupt, but it happened to me again in a brand new scene. This time I was able to make a screen shot of the weird perspective. It looks and feels like I am drunk...

(Sorry for the funny looking scene. We had a Friday Pictures on Inventor with King's day as theme. )

 

I think it happened when I went from PhysCamera to Perspective View but I am not quite sure. After closing and re-opening Max it normally would look like this.

ad 2) The wrong selections could be because of bad use of topology on my side (the Chocolate Easter Egg). I haven't been able to reproduce that unfortunately.

ad 3) Would like to try that option, but I don't know how. It is especially interesting to see how Inventor keeps itself in that mode. Can you tell me how to start in Safe Mode? Than I can try that tomorrow.

ad 4) Current Anti-Virus software is McAfee. Every now and than my hard drive is working hard, but I haven't paid attention to it at what point. Will keep an ear open for it next time.

ad 5) Can't really answer that question. I always thinks it takes too long for Max (and Inventor) to open, I am too impatient. So at this point I can't say if it is longer or shorter than normal.

ad 6) Yep, a very unstable Inventor!

Cheers,

Judith

[DarrenP]

i would try rolling back the OS to see if the problems go away there seems to be a lot of issues with the Creators Update

[Judith.Hageman]

Hi @DarrenP,

Thank you for your tip. The whole thing was stable before the Creators Update, so theoretically your suggestion would work.

The problem is, I don't have any experience in rolling back OS, and I am afraid I will loose 4 weeks of work in trying. For me that risk at this moment is too big. Also because I don't have the time to fix it if it is going wrong. So that is my hesitation at the moment. 

I posted this 4 weeks ago because I noticed things where different after the update and I wanted to know if it was just me or if more people had problems.

I have been working with this for the last couple of weeks now, and though it is (very) irritating, I took on the habit of saving my work more frequently so if it goes bad, I haven't lost much.

I accept your tip as solution, because I do think it will work.

Cheers,

Judith

[DarrenP]

you can try updating all drivers 1st there may been a compatibility issue with certain drivers due to the creators update

may have to wait see if this is a bug with 3ds max and the Creators update and see if Autodesk addresses it with a hotfix

are you sure this was working before the creators update?

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

Hello @Judith.Hageman,

Ok, thanks for the update here!  I hope you don't mind but I had to unmark the solution since we can't be sure that it solves the problem.  (Sorry @DarrenP.)  

I know you posted this a while back, the thread volume is huge here sometimes and I'm not able to keep totally current with it.  Since you only get 10 days to uninstall a major update for W10, this means you couldn't roll back even if you wanted to.  I think Darren might be correct that there is something in it that is conflicting.  I'll try to address your points here.

1) I see.  This never happened before the Creator's update?  I'm just starting to get scattered reports about problems post CU, so I'm not sure how to resolve these yet or make sense of them but I am taking notes.  Is it possible the "Field Of View" button was used to change the viewport FOV? 

2) Ok, no problem.  This kind of thing happens, maybe when "Show End Result" is on with a turbosmooth above the current stack selection. 

3) I forgot that the new licensing doesn't allow for this.  I have updated the notes to stop suggesting it.  Please disregard. 

4) I recently had a problem at home where my selections were slow.  The problem ended up being my AV software.  I had delayed the reboot after a Windows Update, then my AV updated behind the scenes which caused some kind of conflict and led to Max acting strangely.  I rebooted, uninstalled the AV, rebooted, and then Max worked fine again.  I then reinstalled the AV and all was well.  This would only possibly affect the slow selections.  In your case, the Creator's update might have installed and then some pending AV updates created a possible conflict.  I am guessing here, but if this behavior is constant and always, I think this might be an option.  

5) That's fair.  .Net apps seem to take forever to start sometimes.  No worries.  

6) I checked your crash logs and I've found that you have one Inventor crash that is happening on the OS level with ntdll.dll.  This would sort of point toward the CU, but it's too early to say for sure.  

You are the first to report these problems, so that is a new sort of behavior.  I wonder if somehow your user account was corrupted during all this, that seems to be at the center of the weirdest issues I've seen.   You could test it by simply making a new user account and logging into it to test Max/Inventor to see if they are negatively affected. 

Best Regards,

[Judith.Hageman]

Sorry for the late reaction. Didn't receive an email that let me know there was a reply.

@DarrenP: Thanks for your suggestion to have a look at updating my drivers. I was one behind with my 3D mouse. I am not sure what you mean with "Are you sure this was working before the creators update?" But besides the usual 2017 crashes, none of the above mentioned errors where there before the CU.

@Alfred.DeFlaminis:

Don't mind, if I only have 10 days to uninstall, then it won't work for me at this point, so no solution (Sorry Darren).

It is good to know I only have 10 days to do so!!! I will polish up my knowledge on how to do so for future update problems.

1) As far as I can remember this never happened to me before the CU. I sometimes use the FOV button, mostly the shortkeys. Can't recall it for this situation. Will register it next time it happens.

2) Although it was grayed, I think there still was a turbosmooth and I do use Show end result.

3) Too bad, would have been nice to try that.

4) There has been an update for McAfee as well around the same time. They have a whole new UI at the moment. Will have a look at that later.

5) When I want to work, I want to work, not wait... Just have to learn to be more patient....

6) I have decided to send in more crash reports (if I get the possibility to do so). To be honest most of the time I don't take the effort. I can't send the files that Autodesk is asking for in the reply they send after it.

But indeed one of them was ntdll.dll.

Your suggestion for making a new user account doesn't sound logic. Inventor always signs me in, in 360 automatically. I have wondered if that would cause the crash report when closing Inventor at the end of the day. In Max I never log in.

So I did two things different today: updated my 3D driver and deleted the very annoying OneDrive! I had the feeling that OneDrive was part of my problem, because it keeps popping up every time while working in either Inventor or Max.

But I have one more thing to add to the list of errors today!!!

7) I can't extrude an edge anymore!!! (Hope what I say is a correct description.)

I wanted to make a side and back wall on a plane for a new scene, selected the edges to shift them upwards, but the whole polygon is going with it.

It is a very simple teapot scene, but I attached it so you can have a look.

Since you mentioned my user account I did log in 360 this time. And although not logic, I changed my Workspace for Design Standard to Default, just in case...

It is getting more exciting by the minute...

Keep you posted.

Cheers,

J.

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

Hello @Judith.Hageman,

These megathreads get a bit tricky sometimes to follow, let's do one issue per thread in the future please.  I'll do my best here. 

1) I see, thanks for the information.

5) Fair enough.

6) A new Windows account as a test is simple though to try.  (I had meant Windows user account, not Autodesk user account.)  

7) Works fine for me on that file. You have a symmetry on, so it's going to duplicate any operations you do underneath it.  Is that it?

Keep me posted, and thanks.  

Best Regards,