Show shaded mat in viewport button makes objects invisible

[Kennet3design]

This happens a lot for me to. Very annoying. I first noticed this in max 2018 but it happens in 2017 also when I checked. To be able to see the textures when this happens i have to change the shading mode to facets instead of default shading.

To fix this I try starting up more max instances until one of them suddenly works. Or close max, delete the enu folder, start max again, open a scene to check if everything is fine which it usually is. Close max again. Then delete the enu folder and use my copied enu folder with all my settings instead and start max again. This works sometimes but not always. 

I encounter this several times a week or even per day sometimes.

I never had this kind of problems before. But now om on new hardware and win 10 instead of win 7. Maybe win 10 and max does not work so great?

I have the same problem on both of my computers. They have identical hardware and operating systems though. Soon I will get a new laptop, it will be interesting to see if the same problem occurs on that.

Windows 10 - 64  Gig RAM - Nvidia quadro P5000 with driver 376.33 - Dual Intel Xeon E5 2687W v4 - 512 Gig SSD 

EDIT: Posts moved and title updated.  -Alfred

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

Hello @Kennet3design,

I was reading on the Chaosgroup forums and someone mentioned that the newer drivers are causing a problem like this.  I haven't seen it on my machine but I don't discount anything I read.  The older drivers lead to viewport crashing and some people say the newer drivers lead to this.  I'd like to work together to investigate this.  This thread is older and may not be the same issue.  I realize it sounds the same.  Is this happening with any material type for you?  Or just VrayBlendMtls?   I may need to move your post and replies to a new thread if this is happening on non-Vray materials.  Thanks!

Best Regards,

[Kennet3design]

Thanks @Alfred.DeFlaminis for trying to help.

I have vray installed 3.60.03.

But this happens even on simple standard materials with only a texture in the diffuse slot also.

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

Hello @Kennet3design,

If you roll your GPU drivers back to before June, does the problem go away? 

Would it be possible to share this file with me? If privacy is necessary due to NDA reasons, I can create a private folder for you. I am happy to do so if you would like.

Best Regards,

[Kennet3design]

@Alfred.DeFlaminis

I use driver 376.33. As far as I can tell this driver is from 2016.12.14 from nvidias website.

I installed this driver because first a had a newer driver from some time this summer i think and I thought it could be a driver issue, 

I went to nvidias website and downloaded 376.33 because it is a certified driver for 3ds max 2018.

I dont think you need a file from me because it happens even with just a teapot with a standard material applied and a texture in the diffuse slot:)

It does not seem to be scene specific. When I get this error every scene I open up has the same problem.

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

Hello @Kennet3design,

I have no issues at all with any drivers in the viewport.  Windows 7, latest updates.  So, I cannot repro this on my end.  Since the driver you are using is older, can you please try a newer driver?  Thanks!  

Best Regards,

[Kennet3design]

@Alfred.DeFlaminis

I had a newer driver before this one 382.06 from may this year. With the same problem. And I have two computers with this problem (but with identical hardware). Maybe win 10 and Max are not best friends?

Windows 10 - 64  Gig RAM - Nvidia quadro P5000 with driver 376.33 - Dual Intel Xeon E5 2687W v4 - 512 Gig SSD

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

Hello @Kennet3design,

Thanks for the update.  I've seen a couple cases like this recently but they were resolved with the older drivers.  This makes me think that this may not be the same issue.  If you change display modes, does it help?  Would it be possible to record a Screencast or some video of what this looks like?  Thank you so much!

Best Regards,

[Kennet3design]

@Alfred.DeFlaminis

I made a simple recording with my phone so I'm sorry for poor quality. I speeded the recording up to make the movie shorter.

It shows a simple scene with a plane and som teapots with a standard material with a texture in the diffuse slot with show shaded material in viewport button on.

With the standard shading the objects are invisible, But every other display mode works and I go through some of them in the recording. Then I start a new max instance and open the same scene, the problem is still there, invisible objects.

Then I open a third max instance and open the same scene again. Now it suddenly works!?

When this problem shows up I does not matter what kind of max project I open up. All have invisible objects. I have to start up more instances of max until one of them starts working and then all is fine. As long as I dont shut the working max instance down I can open and work normally with all my 3ds max projects. It is like something breaks in the startup of 3ds max?

Hope you can get an idea of my problem from this crappy recording

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

Thank you for recording that @Kennet3design, I totally see what you mean.  I have logged this into the tracker.  Anyone else in this thread have this same behavior?

What is your current version of W10?  Creator's Update?  Did this problem always exist for you or did it start suddenly?  Thanks for the info!  

Best Regards,

[Kennet3design]

@Alfred.DeFlaminis

This computer is brand new. I only have had It a couple of weeks and it came with win 10. The problem showed up right away. I don't know if it would work better with win 7.

But with previous computers and xp/win 7 I never have hade this kind of problems before.

I'm not sure If I have the creators update but I took a screencapture from the windows settings.

[Anonymous]

@Alfred.DeFlaminis

@Kennet3design

Our entire office is having this unpredictable and infuriating issue.  Here are the bullet points of what we know/have experienced:

-We are using Mental Ray for rendering, so we're using Arch&Design materials, but it also happens with Standard materials

-We are in the process of upgrading to Redshift and it also happens with Redshift materials

-It happens to materials with "show shaded material in viewport" checked

-It happens to materials with "show realistic material in viewport" checked

-It happens to materials with neither checked

-It happens to materials that use texture maps

-It happens to materials that don't use texture maps

-Scene size doesn't affect it; it can be very small and basic, or rather huge

-Distance from origin doesn't affect it

-It started when we upgraded to 2017.  Prior to upgrading, we were using 2015.

-Upon opening Max, we have to switch around and find a view setting that happens to work best for us at that particular time.  Flat vs default vs facet in conjunction with standard vs dx mode vs high quality (though high quality is almost always too slow to use even if everything is visible; our scenes can get pretty large sometimes)

-----what I mean by this is, with the same exact scene, Standard+flat may work the best; open that same scene a different day or later the same day, and all of a sudden Standard+facet works the best (making invisible things visible, that were previously visible with Flat earlier that day).  Sometimes, nothing works very good and you have to close and re-open Max several times until it randomly works (I've restarted up to 6 times before)

-The same thing is happening to all users on multiple types of machines.  I am currently using a laptop with i7-6820HQ @2.7 GHz, 16 GB RAM, and Quadro P3000 (I'd like to point out that this is pretty much the beefiest laptop video card there is...).  Other machines are also running very high end processors with 16 GB RAM, but video cards include Quadro K5000 and Quadro M3000M.

-Everyone uses Windows 7

-Sometimes selecting the invisible object will make it show up, but it will disappear again shortly after deselecting it.  Sometimes it disappears instantaneously, sometimes it fades away.

-Sometimes selecting the invisible object will have no effect whatsoever

-It happens with adaptive degradation toggled

-It happens with adaptive degradation not toggled

-Shadows on, shadows off, use default lighting, use scene lighting, no affect with any combo

I was going to start my own thread with this issue since, like you said, it may be a different issue than the OP, but you asked @Alfred.DeFlaminis!  So here it is!

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

Thank you very much for the details @Kennet3design and @Anonymous.  I have moved your posts to a new thread that isn't already considered 'solved'. 

If anyone else is having issues, please relate your experience in this thread and thank you.  In the meanwhile I have logged this in the tracker to be investigated by QA.  Thank you.  

Best Regards,

[Kennet3design]

@Alfred.DeFlaminis

Hi again! Just some more info for you. I got my new laptop this week and the same problem showed up quickly on that computer also.

Updating to newer video driver did not help.

win 10 pro, intel core i7-7820HQ quadcore 2,9 GHz, Quadro P3000, 32 Gig RAM, 3DS max 2018.1, vray 3.60.03

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

Hello @Kennet3design and @Anonymous,

Thank you both for the updates and information.  I need to collect as much info as possible, so I have a few questions below.  I would be very grateful for your answers to these questions.  Please list the following things for me and thank you for doing so.   (I am using this form in multiple threads so some of the information may be already listed above.)  

1) Card model

2) Driver version

3) Windows Version (To find out which version of Windows your PC is running, press Windows logo key + R, type winver, then select OK.)  

4) Is there a specific action which seems to trigger this? 

Additionally, if you have scene files which display this problem, please email me a link to those files (or I can create a private folder) to Alfred.DeFlaminis@autodesk.com.   Lastly, the event viewer logs would also be great if that is an option.  Thank you all very much.

Best Regards,

[Kennet3design]

@Alfred.DeFlaminis

My workstation

Card: Nvidia Quadro P5000

Driver: 376.33 at the moment but first I had driver 382.06 also with this problem

Windows version: 1703 (OS-version 15063.540)

Trigger: Sometime during the startup phase of 3ds max something seem to trigger it. Either it works after startup or it does not. If it works fine after 3ds max starts the problem never comes back. But if it does not work directly after startup it will never get working again, only solution is to start up new max instances until one suddenly work again.

You can try with a simple teapot with a standard material and a texture in the diffuse slot. Press the show map in viewport and the obect dissapears (with standard and default shading).

But clay, flat, facets, performance, wireframe and so on works as normal.

My laptop

Card: Nvidia Quadro P3000

Driver: 382.16 

Windows version: 1703 (OS-version 15063.540)

Trigger: Sometime during the startup phase of 3ds max something seem to trigger it. Either it works after startup or it does not. If it works fine after 3ds max starts the problem never comes back. But if it does not work directly after startup it will never get working again, only solution is to start up new max instances until one suddenly work again.

You can try with a simple teapot with a standard material and a texture in the diffuse slot. Press the show map in viewport and the obect dissapears (with standard and default shading).

But clay, flat, facets, performance, wireframe and so on works as normal.

I really hope you guys can find what the problem is and correct it in a service pack as soon as possible. It is incredibly annoying.

Thank you for listening Alfred

EDIT: Thank you for the event viewer data.  I have attached it to the tracker case and removed it here in case there was private information in it to protect your privacy.  - Alfred

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

Thank you very much @Kennet3design, I really appreciate this.  I have added all this information to the tracker, and I am grateful to have community members as helpful as yourself.  Have a great weekend.

Best Regards,

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

Hello @Kennet3design and @Anonymous,

One last question.  I'm noticing that the OS version doesn't really differentiate between Home and Pro versions of Windows.  Are you using Home or Pro?  Thanks so much!

Best Regards,

[Kennet3design]

@Alfred.DeFlaminis

Sure Alfred I'm using win 10 pro on both workstation and laptop.

[Anonymous]

@Alfred.DeFlaminis

Sure thing, laptop:

1) Quadro P3000

2) 21.21.13.7864

3) Windows 8.1 Enterprise, Version 6.3

4) Negative; different every time I open a scene