perspective match in max2022 broken

[Anonymous]

Anybody else struggling with this? All the xyz handles jump when moving one.

Max2022 / win10

Vray

[aammarGBY6C]

It doesn't working yet and still the same problem with z axe!

[fmtbmp]

CAnt use in max 2023. It work more or less in perspective view, but when I try to make a camera out of that perspective I loos all the alignment

[mgraff0924]

Its never worked perfectly with a camera. It seams like the camera always tilts a touch. Trying to use perspective match with Octane Render is next to useless too. They are suppose to be a partner, but its never worked right. It barely did before I used a third party render engine. 

[archusain.90]

I can't even get the perspective match tool to work right with 3ds max's own physical camera (no target). Any ideas?

[RobH2]

I had trobule using it in 2022 but I use it all the time in 2023 and 2024. I literally did 15 files in Max2023 this week and all worked perfectly. You might need to upgrade to get away from 2022 if Perspective Match is critical to your work. 

[archusain.90]

I'm using max 2024, and still can't get it to work. Do you mind providing more information? Like the the type of camera and any options you're using (like changing something in the camera settings, or something in the Perspective Match setup)?

[RobH2]

@archusain.90 

Here is a video. Pardon the gaps and apparent fumbling around. I reduced the window size a good bit instead of recording my 4K full monitor to make the video larger and easier to see. That threw me off when getting around the interface as things were not where I expected them, or they were partially buried.

1. place your background image in the 'Perspective' view. (I have a gap in the video while to go find the dimensions for mine and put it in the 'Output Size' settings using another monitor)
2. I always place some sort of initial box in the center of the scene that is close to what I think something in the scene will be. That helps know that the scale is fairly close.
3. I always tick 'on' the 'Allow Distorted View' as I find things work better if the verticals in the image are not perfectly vertical or parallel in the background image.
4. After I'm done, I "lock off" the camera so I can't accidently move it. But, before I leave the Perspective View view/task, I do go around and tweak all of the guides two or three times to fine tune them. Each time it gets a little more precise and you can watch your guide box to see how it's lining up. You can see the one in the video is not perfect and that's because I didn't back around and tweak them all again to fine-tune.

In the video I go off and adjust the guide box's size and come back. I don't suggest you do that. Just stay in the Perspective Match view and finish up. lock off and then go adjust other things. I shouldn't have gone and adjusted that box and then come back.

I've done dozens of these this week and all were perfect. It makes me curious what's going wrong when you try to use the tool.

[JezEmin]

Was that an actual photo you were matching to or a render?

I think often times people are trying to match to an actual photo accurately and to be more precise than in your video example. 

[johan_aspenberg]

Hi,
I think this was a bug in max 2022(?) It was the x, y and z lines in the perspective match function that had a bug, regardless of the photo. It worked perfectly fine in 2021, 2020 and even in 2023. Maybe they have fixed it in 2022 also. All good🙂
/reg.
Johan

[archusain.90]

Thank you very much for putting in the time to explain, much appreciated.

I think I mostly got it, but still having issues, namely:

1. When creating a camera from the current perspective view, the vanishing points get rearranged, and trying to fix them causes problems (one of the axes just does not match with the box).

2. I'm using a wide-angle photograph from my iPhone, which I believe is causing these issues due to the distortion. This might result in the problems from 1.

I think I will need to use images with less distortion, and get some practice. 

Also, do you know if, after creating the standard camera from perspective, I can then convert it to VRayPhysicalCamera without issues?

Thank you!

[archusain.90]

Also the biggest difference between what I was doing and your workflow is the camera. I used to start with a camera, then try to adjust the vanishing lines from its view, which never worked correctly with me.

[RobH2]

You said:

1. When creating a camera from the current perspective view, the vanishing points get rearranged, and trying to fix them causes problems (one of the axes just does not match with the box).

---------that sometimes happens if the ground grid is not initially close to where it needs to be. Place a cube in the scene that makes sense scale-wise for other objects in your scene at 0,0,0. Then manually move the 'Perspective' viewport around until that object and the ground plane look kind of close there where they should be, as if you were trying to match it by eye. Then make the camera. I've found that the vanishing lines not stay put and don't move at all. -----

2. I'm using a wide-angle photograph from my iPhone, which I believe is causing these issues due to the distortion. This might result in the problems from 1.

-----------that will totally cause problems. Perspetive Match in Max does not adjust for lens barrel and pincushion distortion. If you have to use a phone and not a real camera (although expensive cameras get lens distortion too), then you are probably going to have to be OK with getting things close, but not perfect. You can try to use another program on your iPhone images to correct the lens distortion and then bring them into Max for Perspective Match. That can help.------------

I think I will need to use images with less distortion, and get some practice. 

----yes, exactly-----

Also, do you know if, after creating the standard camera from perspective, I can then convert it to VRayPhysicalCamera without issues?

----I use a 3rd party to convert scene elements to VRay or whatever, but yes, when I convert a Max Physical Camera to a VRay Physical Camera, it works perfectly. Nothing moves or goes arwy.----------

[RobH2]

From my experience that's exactly the wrong way to use the tool. Don't start with a camera viewport, start with a Perspective viewport. When it's all set, make the camera and lock it. That might be the reason you are having so much touble. 

[archusain.90]

Thank you again for your prompt and detailed replies! I really do appreciate your time.

All of your comments make sense. Going forward, I will follow these steps.

Thanks again!

[JezEmin]

But that's exactly how it's taught (like, *everywhere*)!  So, I've been doing it 'wrong' for years which is why I've had very little luck with the Perspective Match, until your post. So a big thank you for teaching me how to use it properly, it now works like a charm!

[RobH2]

Ha, funny, but I guess not so much. Seriously, that's how it's taught? Maybe I'm doing it all wrong...but...it works for me perfectly if I do it my way. Very interesting. I'll look up a tutorial or two and we how they do it. 

Anyway, glad my method, right or wrong, is working for you as well. 

[JezEmin]

Man, I can't thank you enough for this gem of a tip.  I've got 30 of these suckers to match up and I've been sailing through them like a champ!  Thanks a ton!

[RobH2]

That's really good to hear.

There are several threads here about Perspective Match not working. It was kind of broken for a bit in Max 2022 or 2023, I forgot which, but once it was corrected, I've had no trouble with it and, like you, have been able to just sail through doing a lot of them. Maybe that was the reason, that people were trying to do it in a camera view. 

Anyway, glad it's working for you.   🙂

[matthew.boerjan]

I think most of us did look a bit deeper into this problem than just
testing directly from within a camera view or not.

This was not the issue. But rather a developer fallback between versions.
Where they changed the legacy behaviour of the perspective match tool. And
that behaviour could no longer coexist with the distorted perspective match
behaviour. I got this feedback from a technical assistant who was directly
in contact with the dev team. This was back in 2021.

So each time you have a real life photo as a backplate with some distorsion
the perspective tool couldn't match it up perfectly and one or more axes
were buggy as a result. Indeed in latest version 2023 they introduced the
distorsion option again and both behaviours are working. It was a matter of
taking the time and effort on the developer team's end to reprogram the
perspective tool in order for it to work again like it used to in version
2019. As since then they introduced the newer version which caused the
issues.

So it took them several years....to tackle the issue. But they finally did
it which is what matters most.

[RobH2]

Great technical background on that. Thank you.