Odd Issue with Normal Maps

[Anonymous]

Hi guys, wondering if you can help me out. I'm having a few issues with normal mapping, particularly with the way it's showing in the viewport. My viewport settings are set to render 4k and I've put realistic material settings.

What the issue is is that I have created a normal map in Maya and when I put it into max it goes very very unusual around the seams as you can see from the picture here:

So I decided to create the normal maps in 3DS max and it turned out fine as you can see from the picture below, however I wanted to use two different levels of projection, so I created two different normal maps (which looked fine in Max) and then put it into photoshop to edit it slightly so small areas like the teeth didn't mess up because of the overlapping projection, however when saving the file and putting that edited file into Max it turned out like the first image again with it showing the seams. Whether the file is PNG or TGA appears to make no difference.

Anyone have any ideas what exactly is going on here? My UVs are fine, evidently from the fact the second image looks good but something is happening with the files to cause them to not show properly in Max when created from a third party programme, even Maya.

Also, if you look in the material editor the first two you can see there are the ones that work in Max, the 3rd, 4th and 5th that you can see on the screen are the ones that do not work. The settings are all the same as far as I can tell however as you can see the first two look quite nice in its spherical view, but the others look very odd.

[Ihno]

This is most likely a gamma issue. Try to activate override 1 for your normal map in the bitmap loader. That should work

Also please note that mixing normal maps will only work if you only use the opacity of the layer. Any layer operations such as add, multiply and mostly used: overlay will mess up your map. If you have Vray you could use the MixNormalMap osl map form this Page: http://www.rensheeren.com/blog/mixnormalmaps-osl/

Cheers!

[lightcube]

While it could be a gamma issue, there is another issue you need to know about. I'd read this document on normal maps. Not all normal maps work the same way and not all programs make them the same way. Traditionally, Max/Maya use green differently. To accommodate this with minimum fuss, pipe your current normal map into a Normal Bump map texture and click the Flip Green checkbox. Now pipe this texture into your material. That might solve your issue.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the help but neither of these worked. I'm not sure if I described my issue correctly, so I'll just put it simply what is and isn't working

Working = Normal map made in Max with low projection cage - to stop small areas from overlapping

Working = Normal map made in Max with slightly higher projection cage - so larger areas actually get covered, but smaller areas get overlapped

Not working = The normal map edited in photoshop using the two working normal maps - the extent of the editing was just putting one on top of the other and rubbing out everything bar the body in the UV, even with this edit the three UVs appear almost identical in every way, yet this one does not work. I'm not layering normal maps on top of each other, It's just one normal map just edited with the body using the slightly higher projection.

Not working = Anything created in Maya

The issue doesn't seem to be the normal map itself, this is evident from the fact the photoshopped normal map is near identical to the two working ones, the issue is that along the all UV seams it's creating this odd contrasting shading

Here is another angle, as you can see everything is smooth on the face until the back of the head where the seam appears, as stated this does not seem to be a problem with the normal map or the UVs themselves, but something is happening to force these particular maps to mess up around the seams. This is problematic because 1) I would prefer to use Maya to create my normal maps. and 2) I would like to retouch the working ones in Photoshop but I can't as any edit, however minor, in photoshop causes this problem

[Ihno]

I'm still thinking its gamma.
You baked texture is propably linear and if you edit in ps, ps adds a gamma profile to it. So back in 3ds max you'd have to activate the gamma: 1 radiobutton in the open file dialoge of your map. If that dont work, try to type 0.47 (for double gammared images) or 2.2 for (double de-gammered images)



I never use 3ds max for creating normal maps by the way.... This days I allways use zbrush but in the past I used the free and still pretty good XNormal. http://www.xnormal.net/.

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

Hello @Anonymous,

There are a few things I would suggest, but it's always easiest if you can share the file.  I can make a private folder if you'd like, so it's completely discrete.  

When you render, do the seams show up incorrectly?  What if you put the maps before you photoshopped them?  The gamma idea from @Ihno and the flipped channel idea from @lightcube are both good suggestions because it seems like the color space of the normal map is getting adjusted which is a typical reason for these seams.  I would turn off the gamma altogether while you're working on this, easiest way to ensure it's not a gamma problem.  Just got to Rendering->Gamma/LUT setup and disable it.  Now we can eliminate that as an issue. 

Also, in the General tab for Customize->Preferences you have some options for displaying normals in different ways.  You may want to play a bit with those, but chances are that isn't the problem.  I usually leave that alone, but the channel orientation can make a difference.  (A la lightcube's post.)  

Thanks for trying those and again, I'm happy to create a folder for you.

Best Regards,

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

Hello @Anonymous,

I just wanted to follow up here, any progress on this issue?

Best Regards,

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

Hello @Anonymous,

Following up one last time.  I think there is a good chance Photoshop was embedding a color profile in your image which is why it stopped working after using it in Photoshop.  Is this possible, do you remember applying a profile to it? 

Best Regards,

[Anonymous]

Sorry for the lack of reply, I have been quite busy. I have tried many different things with multiple programmes and I have concluded that this is a 3ds Max bug. Some of my tutors have seen similar things in the past with the 2017 version and my normal maps are completely fine outside of 3ds Max.

I have tried the suggestions to make them work in 3ds Max however but none seem to do the trick, however turning off the gamma does help but the seams are still quite noticeable. 

It is odd because normals maps made or edited outside of 3ds Max in the past have worked fine, however it seems for these set of maps in particular 3ds Max is not liking anything made or edited outside of the programme, however minor those edits might be. I did suspect this would be a Max issue from the start as my normals maps made in Maya were almost identical, same file type and had the same material settings as the ones made in Max, but the Maya ones showed the seams.

Thanks for the help anyway, but all the evidence is pointing towards a bug in this instance

Have a good Christmas guys 🙂

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

Hello @Anonymous,

Would it be possible to share a file with me?  You mentioned they were fine until you Photoshopped them, so it's likely the problem occurred in Photoshop.  I can create a private folder if you need to keep them secret, but I'd like to take a look and maybe I can help. 

Best Regards,

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

Hello @Anonymous,

I wanted to follow up one more time to see if I could check the file for you.  The maps coming out of Maya might be better with the Maya normal mode as shown below, but the working ones that stopped working after Photoshop do seem like an embedded profile issue and I'm glad to help with it. 

Best Regards,

[drabblefreddy]

WOW! amazing thank you so so much, completely fixed my problem! 🙂