Morph target conflics with skinning?

[RyuMaster666]

Hi! My model has animation and some morphs. When in T-POSE, morphs are working just fine.

Also, animation plays fine without morphs.

But, if I enable some full body morph, which makes target larger with more muscules, I get this:

I suspect it has something to do with my animation, but can not get to the root of this problem. Any advice on this one?

[RyuMaster666]

Hi! My model has animation and some morphs. When in T-POSE, morphs are working just fine.

Also, animation plays fine without morphs.

But, if I enable some full body morph, which makes target larger with more muscules, I get this:

I suspect it has something to do with my animation, but can not get to the root of this problem. Any advice on this one?

[RyuMaster666]

I see where problems comes from now. In my original file, I simply have same skeleton with the bigger scale value.

If I apply morph only, without skeleton scaling, I get this odd result.

But, if I try and scale the skeleton, it always scales it up with the actual mesh model, there is no way to scale the skeleton without altering the mesh with such scaling.

hmmm, seems like this has no clean solution.

[RyuMaster666]

I see where problems comes from now. In my original file, I simply have same skeleton with the bigger scale value.

If I apply morph only, without skeleton scaling, I get this odd result.

But, if I try and scale the skeleton, it always scales it up with the actual mesh model, there is no way to scale the skeleton without altering the mesh with such scaling.

hmmm, seems like this has no clean solution.

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

Hello @RyuMaster666,

If I created a private folder for you, would you be willing to upload the file?  Or, a file of some kind with the same issue?  I'll happily look for a workaround.  There might be something specific about the setup that's preventing it from working.  I have a test here on a simple teapot and I don't repro the issue, so I think there might be a solution but I'd have to get my hands on the actual file.

It may be as simple as scaling the guy up/down to match the other one and resetting the Xform, then reloading the target.  I would imagine the only key factor is the two targets having the same scale with the skin off and reset Xforms on the target.  If the main object already had xform history and it's different from the target that could be trickier but maybe saving the skin settings out and reloading on a fixed model could work after resetting both objects.  At least, if the problem is what I think it might be.  

Best Regards, 

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

Hello @RyuMaster666,

If I created a private folder for you, would you be willing to upload the file?  Or, a file of some kind with the same issue?  I'll happily look for a workaround.  There might be something specific about the setup that's preventing it from working.  I have a test here on a simple teapot and I don't repro the issue, so I think there might be a solution but I'd have to get my hands on the actual file.

It may be as simple as scaling the guy up/down to match the other one and resetting the Xform, then reloading the target.  I would imagine the only key factor is the two targets having the same scale with the skin off and reset Xforms on the target.  If the main object already had xform history and it's different from the target that could be trickier but maybe saving the skin settings out and reloading on a fixed model could work after resetting both objects.  At least, if the problem is what I think it might be.  

Best Regards, 

[RyuMaster666 · Accepted solution]

Hi! Thank you for getting back. Its not 3Ds Max issue, I can see my problem now. When I use morph target to downscale the body, I need also to re-position the bones, not to down-scale them. That was not obvious and difficult to pint-point, but now I know the answer.

Regards,

Konstantin.

[RyuMaster666 · Accepted solution]

Hi! Thank you for getting back. Its not 3Ds Max issue, I can see my problem now. When I use morph target to downscale the body, I need also to re-position the bones, not to down-scale them. That was not obvious and difficult to pint-point, but now I know the answer.

Regards,

Konstantin.

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

Hello @RyuMaster666,

I'm glad it's working for you now, thanks for the update!

Best Regards,

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

Hello @RyuMaster666,

I'm glad it's working for you now, thanks for the update!

Best Regards,

[Anonymous]

If you want to SCALE Skeleton without the MESH scaling with it,  you can go into Skin Advanced Rollout, deselect 'Always Deform'. 

If your model changes a lot when you 'turn off' the Skin modifier, you can make a new 'base' by:

1) With skin on and working, right click and copy the Skin, add a Edit Mesh on top of the object, select all sub object elements and click 'detach' (and check 'as clone')  It will extract the mesh the way the skin has it.

2) Paste your Skin modifier onto the new mesh,  (It will flip out!)  BUT then go do the 'advanced 'always deform' de select it and re select it the skin will now apply to the mesh it it's new base pose!  (can paste in Morpher too) Might need to pass Morphs up through to the Detach, to reflect the new 'base pose'  ...

Check out the Utility called Skin Utilities too!  Helps you combine bones and skinning (take 70 face bones and combine them into a single head bone etc)

[Anonymous]

If you want to SCALE Skeleton without the MESH scaling with it,  you can go into Skin Advanced Rollout, deselect 'Always Deform'. 

If your model changes a lot when you 'turn off' the Skin modifier, you can make a new 'base' by:

1) With skin on and working, right click and copy the Skin, add a Edit Mesh on top of the object, select all sub object elements and click 'detach' (and check 'as clone')  It will extract the mesh the way the skin has it.

2) Paste your Skin modifier onto the new mesh,  (It will flip out!)  BUT then go do the 'advanced 'always deform' de select it and re select it the skin will now apply to the mesh it it's new base pose!  (can paste in Morpher too) Might need to pass Morphs up through to the Detach, to reflect the new 'base pose'  ...

Check out the Utility called Skin Utilities too!  Helps you combine bones and skinning (take 70 face bones and combine them into a single head bone etc)