Looking for Advanced Max Fluids Assistance

[RobH2]

In the fall of 2017 Martin Coven posted "Introducing 3ds Max 2018 Update 3" in the Blog. It has an architectural model and shows a few settings panels for it. 

I was hoping that model was available somehow. It would be a good one to explore and reverse engineer as it encompasses several fluid scenarios that are discussed in no other tutorials, anywhere. 

While the Max 'Help' file has gotten better over the years, it still suffers from not really explaining what settings do and how they work. For instance, suppose you look up 'Size Max Domain' and like me, you have absolutely no idea what a Size Domain is. Here's the answer, "Size Max DomainSets the maximum channel value to use when remapping the particle." That's just repeating the name of the setting and adding a few more confusing concepts. 

What I can't find is ANY documentation, tutorial or document that discusses what specific parameters are and how they interact. So having access to the model I mention above or a few more fully set-up models could be very helpful. 

I've searched the Web, Youtube, etc., and have found all the ones there, drizzling cherries, Max Logo water balloon, dragging Teapot through the water, etc. But none of them really dive into Max Fluids. All of them just scratch the surface.

Anyone know of any good ones?

[brentscannell]

Hi @RobH2

Thanks for your interest! I will see if that dataset can be shared, however often times we try to source customer based datasets for our demos to make sure they are as representative as possible. Typically we only have authorization to use in learning or marketing material in those cases. (For those reading this and wanting to see their work showcased in a demo or promo vid, please don't hesitate to send me a note.)

Would you be able to share a bit of the specifics of the issues you're encountering? I'm sure some of the members in this community will be able to give some pointers about what parameters you might start looking at adjusting to get your desired effect.

[RobH2]

Hi @Anonymous, thanks for responding that for providing that info. As you can tell from my profile, I've been an active participant here for some time. I am fully aware of the depth, breadth and availability of fantastic users here on the forum. 

My longing is for something that gets me under the hood in all aspects of the new Fluids feature. The documentation from Autodesk falls way short of that and aside from a few tips about not using "values over 1.0" or "use values between X and Y," most of it is a description that restates the switches name, and adds a few more words to make it a sentence. 

I have a very large project beginning that will use a lot of fluids, flowing water and rivers specifically. I've spent two full days getting acquainted with the new Fluids object and just need to know more about how each parameter works so that I can fine tune without doing 100's of tweak-render-tweak-render-etc. That technique of throwing things at the wall to see what sticks is so very time-consuming. You do learn along the way but sometimes it works and you have no idea why so you move on and cross your fingers. 

Specifically, one issue I'm having is that I can't seem to get the scale to look correct. I modeled a dam and spillway in true meters. I put a 6' tall character next to the water and the scale of the water made the character look like it was 4" tall. The water was just too thick and too large. I tried every setting I could from changing the global scale to changing the Voxels to really tiny values (took hours to solve 10-frames...so that's not sustainable) and everything in-between. 

If I knew more about the theory and logic behind each parameter, besides, "Voxel Size" = "Controls Voxel Size" (duh!) then I might be able to get any desired result in any scale.

My hope is that this new Fluid object can eliminate the need to buy Real Flow or something similar, that is fully featured and fully documented. That's my hope. So I'm looking for info primarily instead of a specific solution to a specific modeling issue. I know how to post those here for answers. 

Regards...  Rob 

[hagen.deloss · Accepted solution]

@RobH2

First, i want to say, i completely agree, there isn't as much in depth fluid simulation demos out currently as there should be, and learning by trail and error is super painstaking. 

While this wall of text in the learning documentation is thorough, I find it hard to apply the text into actionable answers to correct my fluid simulations. What i found way more useful is creating simple demo scenes along with video tutorials like this one from the learning channel waaay more helpful.

* This video walks through the container method, may not work for a fast flowing river.

I can't remember if I sent you the link to @klankster vimeo page, but I think there is some really helpful content there as well. I know these types of renderings are possible, because @Anonymous posted some amazing renders on the Project Showcase thread, here is a link to his vimeo.

That all being said, I can try to come up with a demo this afternoon on scale settings. I have had that exact issue before so it would be good to revisit it.

Talk to you soon,

[RobH2]

Hagen, thanks for the links. I have done the one with the boat spray on the water and it did open a few skills and was useful on some level. 

I was unaware of the other links and will check those out. As with all new features, it's a work in progress. I just wish Autodesk, with its nearly infinite resources, could do better job with documentation. A boy can dream...lol....

Thanks again!

[hagen.deloss]

Hi @RobH2

I wanted to make a note, it looks like the Voxel size helps determine how accurate the simulation will be. The smaller this value in centimeters, the more accurate the solve will be, however at the cost of more memory and resources. To adjust the particle size, try going into Display Settings>Particle Settings>Size and adjust that number. Here is a screenshot of what that looks like on my machine.

Hope this helps, and please let me know if there is anything else I can help with, or if that adjustment doesn't give you the right results.

Please select the Accept as Solution button if a post solves your issue or answers your question.

[RobH2]

I appreciate this and you have been quite helpful in this post. I'm continuing to scour the web, using some of the great links provided above, and others, to find advanced "under the hood" info. I'll keep searching. If I find a treasure box full I'll report back here. 

[brentscannell]

I'll see if I can't Martin to chime in here, he's actually working on a flowing river demo model right now 🙂

I know that he's on business travel today, so maybe sometime early next week.

[RobH2]

I appreciate that. Sounds like it could be helpful. I'm doing demos of Phoenix FD and RealFlow right now. Both are more mature and user friendly. I'm trying to still find a way to stick with Max Fluids, however. 

[RobH2]

Just a quick update. Being frustrated with finding enough intelligible documentation to use Max Fluids I have purchased RealFlow. It's well documented in a manner that makes it usable without spending 9-months of 8-hour days to figure it out. Autodesk has more financial resources than just about any developer. I wish the software documentation support was in line with that fact.