FFD Modifier does not observe rules of Reference Cloning

[Anonymous]

FFD Modifiers currently do not follow the rules of cloning as a "reference". For example, if i clone an object as a REFERENCE - and then apply an FFD modifier, the FFD modifier should NOT affect the original source object. However - this is broken in Max 2017. Making changes to the cloned (referenced) object with an FFD modifier will actually affect the original source geometry. This is a problem. Anyone else ? Using Max 2017 19.0 SF (with latest updates)

[Anonymous]

Nope, can`t confirm. It works just fine here:

1) Create a cylinder

2) Clone as reference

3) Add FFD-Modifer to reference

4) Edit FFD just deforms reference object as expected.

3dsmax2017.1 + Security Fix.

[Anonymous]

yep i can do that too - it doesnt always manifest itself. ill have to go into some more detail about this ongoing problem early next week. Maybe ill post a video showing the problem.

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

Hello @Anonymous,

I had the same results as @Anonymous, but you have my attention.  Perhaps I am not executing the proper steps to show this problem, and if there are some repro steps or a video that can help me repro I'd be happy to log it.  Currently mine works as described by Aon, but I believe that it's possible for there to be a problem and I am not doing the right steps to bring it to the surface.  Thanks for any more information you can give!

Best Regards,

[Anonymous]

Hello
apologies for not getting back onto this yet. I will definitely do so as
this problem has occurred to me many many times.
Before the weekend i should be able to illustrate the issue. thx

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

No problem @Anonymous, thank you for taking the time to do that.  I'd be happy to log the issue once I can repro it.  Thank you very much!

Best Regards,

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

Hello @Anonymous,

I just wanted to follow up here.  Happy to log anything if I can repro it, and thanks!

Best Regards,

[Anonymous]

Hello Alfred,

finally i had some spare time !  OK so - you cannot reproduce this problem "immediately" with a simple referencing operation. You have to fiddle around - and when you do, "s**t gets real" pretty fast 🙂   The steps i took: Create a box with multiple divisions and clone it as multiple instances. Clone one of the boxes again as an instance. Clone that as a reference (multiple copies). Add an FFD modifier & play around with it. Everything seems OK. Do this again with another one of the referenced boxes. Seems OK. Now - go back to one of the original instanced boxes. Things start getting wierd. In shade view with edges on, you can see the original box instances are all being affected by the referenced clone - it shows up in the edges but not the shaded portion. Switch to wireframe and it all looks wierd. At this stage i play around with creating a few more referenced boxes and trying another FFD modifier. Nothing much changes. So then i dont make any changes, i just deselect and then each time i try selecting a box random things happen to all the boxes. The video shows that the very first box eventually has the FFD modifications that were applied to a reference, wrongly applied back to it. I "think" the trigger may be that when i applied an FFD to the original box (and made a very minor adjustment to the box) - and then when i select all the objects - at that point, the reference object modifiers are applied to the originals. Please see if this video helps explain

3dsMax_Referencing-problem.mp4

[Anonymous]

Good catch, leochester!

I can reproduce this behavior under the 2017.1 release. At first it looks like a display glitch. It starts when altering the original box from where the instances where created. But as soon as you add another modifier to the original box, the changes you did at the referenced objects are propagated back to all objects. However,it seems this doesn`t effect rendering. Can you confirm this?

Also this is not  happening under 3dsmax 2016 SP4.

[Anonymous]

Yes
I can confirm that this does not affect rendering whilst testing with a
simple scene - although from memory i think this has affected rendering in
the past. Cant confirm either way until i come across this again under more
complex conditions.

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

Hello @Anonymous,

In that video it seems like you made a reference of a reference... is that right?  Any chance I could get the scene file?

Best Regards,

[Anonymous]

I didnt save the scene - but yes you are correct - at some point i probably
made a reference of a reference. I can make a new scene if that helps

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

Sorry to bug you about it, but I'm struggling to repro.  (But I can see it's happening in the video.)  I'm sure I'm doing 1 step wrong...  

I wonder if the problem is the double/triple references.  Still, if it worked in 2016, it should work now.  Thanks if you have a chance to attach a file.  I did try for a while to make it happen but I'm missing a key step somewhere.  

Best Regards,

[Anonymous]

Hi Alfred - here is the scene

Simple max scene

and here is a video which shows the whole screen so perhaps better to review the steps taken.

And it also shows that you can end up with a display screen showing something very different from what you render (the problem does not manifest itself in the rendering)

Full screen video

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

Thank you very much @Anonymous,

Something weird in here, and it happens in DX9 and DX11.  Strangely for me it doesn't do what was happening in your video but instead it changes which FFD's to show on each object different every time I click on one.  Thank you for this, I am logging now.  

Best Regards,