Error loading ParmbBlock2

[markus]

I have a file I used to work on which is now giving me this error when I try to open it. Sometimes the file won't open, and it fails on backburner! I tried restarting max, that didn't help. I've done some quick google searches and found threads regarding max 2013 and 2016, but I didn't find a solution in any of them.

These are the error messages, sometimes several times in a row.

1. Error loading ParmbBlock2
2. Invalid file- only partially loaded.

Why is it failing now? There are so many factors i don't know where to start.

• I recently updated to max 2019.2
• I've also updated Forest pack
• substance plugin
• The file uses a lot of Xref scenes
• The file uses ForestPack.
• The files uses MCG cloners.

Any ideas?

[hagen.deloss]

Hello @markus

Great to hear from you!

Do the errors still happen on a file Merge? 

How many Xref files do you have in that scene, and do those files have older forestpack/substance/ older plugin content?

That the file recently started not opening correlates to one of the recent updates you made, correct? That speaks to a discrepancy in what content and versions are contained within the file, or at least that's my line of thinking at least. 

According to this older article on the invalid file error, it points to a corrupted user profile, so you can try resetting your user profile back to default. If you have a customized setup for key bindings, You can grab your custom .kbdx keyboard shortcut file from the ENU_old folder and load it in again so that you've cleared your preferences but maintained your keyboard shortcut customizations.

Talk to you soon!

Please select the Accept as Solution button if a post solves your issue or answers your question.

[markus]

Hi @hagen.deloss Thanks for replying! The files was created many months ago, by my colleague. It hasn't been worked on for a while and I just took over now. So there might be a few plugin updates and a few 3dsmax updates since then, and there might be a correlation. The file renders on my local machine, but won't render on backburner or even with Vray DR Spawner (distributed rendering).

The error message comes on both my machine, his machine and on the backburner nodes, so I don't think it's a corrupt user profile (the render nodes have default profiles except the ini file is edited to point on a network volume for the MCG's). 

I tried to merge everything in a blank file just now and didn't get any errors, however the file was originally set up as a bunch of xref scenes for cooperation and managing assets, so merging all of it in a single file is not ideal workflow wise. I'll do some more digging.

[markus]

Merging the file into a new empty file only worked temporarily. When I tried to re-open the newly created file, I got the error again. It did render when I sent it to backburner, though.

I got the same error on one of the files less complex (used as an xref). That might narrow it down. The file doesn't contain any forestpro objects, just a step file assembly imported as body objects, and some vray materials.

One material is using the substance2 plugin.

I'm suspecting a problem with substance designer materials, because I saw a thread with the same message in the allegorithmic forums, although it was very old, so it might be unrelated.

https://forum.allegorithmic.com/index.php?topic=604.0

The error seems to come when I load particular max files, but only when opening after having another max file open. If I restart max and open the file, the error message is gone.

[markus]

I got an answer from Allegorithmic. They seem to be aware of an issue which cause this to happen.

https://forum.allegorithmic.com/index.php?topic=26063.new#new

"The problem with loading is due to needing to register descriptors with unique values. When the parameter block doesn't line up with the descriptor, Max gets confused about it.

This happens because on a load or even a reset, 3ds Max does not clear its state, so you would need to restart the application.

Best,
Galen Helfter"

If I have understood him it is occuring when using substance2 because 3dsmax doesn't clear some state before loading a file? 

[hagen.deloss]

@markus

Happy to hear back from you, this is super useful information, I will be looking it over with a few colleagues today.

I'm curious if remaking the substance nodes would work to resolve this issue. If you can isolate the issue to say, one material node and reproduce these errors, and then see if remaking the node system works to clear it up...that may be a good route to narrow down the cause and effect?

I'm sure this would be a pain as you probably are working with a lot of textures within Substance2, but it doesn't sound like we know what specific value its getting caught on. I will touch base with you again later today after I talk to some folks. 

If you restart Max like the Allegorithmic support person suggested, does it resolve the issue? 

Talk soon,

[markus]

Restarting max helps, but because of Xref scenes, it is still a problem I think. Because even if I restart max, I still get an error when it loads xref scenes, in fact I get error messages for each xref scene it loads, and this I think is causing backburner failure, because the backburner nodes also get the error messages when loading xrefs, and won't render. 

My workaround has been to merge everything in my main file instead of using xref, but that isn't an ideal workflow, since the file becomes quite large. I hope Autodesk and Allegorithmic can work to resolve this if it is a bug.

[markus · Accepted solution]

@hagen.deloss Thanks anways, I'm able to submit my renders to backburner now (without xrefs), and I hope they will be done tomorrow. I'm not gonna spend more time on this issue for now, since it's friday evening and I was hoping to get some time off this weekend! 🙂

Have a nice weekend!

[hagen.deloss]

Hi @markus

Thanks for the update. A quick note, I was just chatting with @klankster, who suggested to make sure that all versions of Substance Painter are the same (that could mean re-installing the previous version on your machine(if that's possible)). It could be the reason the error isn't being thrown in Backburner is because your colleagues version of Substance is the same as the one installed on the Backburner machine.

Yes, fingers crossed you get some time to relax this weekend, have a good one!

[markus]

Hi, again @hagen.deloss!

Thanks for the feedback. I feel that I need to clarify some things since you mentioned Substance Painter. I hope this will help avoid confusion. The substance 2 plugin is a node that reads Substance Designer materials (aka *.sbsar files) and turns them into "maps" that the 3dsmax material editor can use in a very convenient way as opposed to exporting a bunch of bitmap files. If you're not familiar with it take a look here (the plugin is free):

https://www.allegorithmic.com/integrations/substance-in-3ds-max 

An older version of the plugin is also included with 3dsmax, but the plugin wasn't maintained by Autodesk, and can't read new versions of Substance materials, so Allegorithmic took back the responsibility and developed the Substance2 plugin.

You can find some free materials to test here:

https://share.allegorithmic.com/libraries?by_category_type_id=4

Materials can also be created by the user in substance designer, or you can download from Substance Source (a subscription service from Allegorithmic).

Substance Painter is a different application, also from Allegorithmic, but isn't a part of the issue, since Substance Painter outputs regular textures files like png, jpg, TGA, etc. It's easy to get confused about the different Substance programs from Allegorithmic if you're not familiar with it

And regarding the issue I have, it seems to be an issue (bug) in 3dsmax, according to Allegorithmic: https://forum.allegorithmic.com/index.php?topic=26063.new#new

Allegoritmic's staff say: "Yes, the second issue is due to Max not clearing state. They are aware of it, as it is in their developer documentation. I doubt they will ever fix it."

I hope Autodesk will prioritize it if it's possible to fix or work with Allegorithmic to find a solution to work around the issue.

[hagen.deloss]

@markus

Making a quick note that I was able to get some technical insights into what may be the issue.

The good news: Autodesk folks will be hopefully talking with some Allegorithmic folks on the matter soon.

The not good news: the technical insights aren't really something actionable on you or I's end, besides twiddling our thumbs. 

I wanted to confirm again that you made sure that all versions of Substance 2, and forestpack are the same on both your machine, in the xref files, and the backburner machine. As long as that's the case, I think its un-officially out of our hands. 

I will pass along any information regarding this as I get it.

Please select the Accept as Solution button if a post solves your issue or answers your question.

[markus]

Thanks again @hagen.deloss! I'm keeping my fingers crossed while twiddling my thumbs!! 😉

Yes, I am very sure that I have the same version of all plugins and 3dsmax servicepacks etc on all the machines, since I just went over them. Anyways, I got the job done at least. I had to merge my xref scenes into the main file. This prevented backburner from failing due to the issue where it's not clearing state.

[hagen.deloss · Accepted solution]

@markus

Hello, I wanted to keep you updated, @electrotoast_old looped me into a conversation with Galen from Allegorithmic,  and it looks like a resolution to this issue will be coming from the Allegorithmic side in a forthcoming version of Substance 2.

I think it's our combined thumb twiddling that did the trick 😉

Hope this answer is helpful on your end!

Please select the Accept as Solution button if a post solves your issue or answers your question.

[markus]

Thank you @hagen.deloss! Good News! 😁

[steve_wilson1]

Well, I'm still getting this issue and it's now the end of 2019 heading into 2020. Any news on why this is still happening ? I'm finding the substance plugin total impossible to work with because of this error.

[markus]

@steve_wilson1  TBH, I have avoided using the Substance Plugin for Max since I had this issue. I don't know if there are any new developments on that front, but it might be a good idea to ask on the substance3D forums or ask their support. My workaround for now has been to export textures as regular bitmaps from Substance Designer or with the Substance Viewer.