CANNOT SEE BACK FACE LINES IN WIRE FRAME

[grue1970]

PLEASE SEE ATTACHED.  I CANNOT SEE UNSELECTED LINES ON THE BACK SIDE!!!  HELP!!!!  other objects you can see the back side as long as they are not selected and in line sub object mode!!!

[grue1970]

ps - is there an issue with the site where you can't see screen shots in the thread?  if i click on them it prompts me to download - or is that a chrome problem?

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

Hello @grue1970,

Is backface cull enabled on that object?  My teapot with it on looks similar to yours.  You can go to Object Properties or the Display tab to check that.   If that's not it, which display driver are you using?  (DX9?  DX11? OpenGL?) 

All my browsers are downloading the image now instead of opening it in a new tab.  I thought it was an internal security thing but I guess not if you are seeing it too.  Might be a change to the forums.  I'm not a fan but I'm sure there was a good reason for it.  

Best Regards,

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

Hello @grue1970,

I just wanted to follow up here, any thoughts on my previous post? Thanks for the update!

Best Regards,

[grue1970]

sorry for late response. for image downloads, now when i click an image link it opens in windows photo viewer.  hm.

anyway, i'm using the nitrous direct 3d 11 (recommended).

i changed to nitrous direct 3d 9 and the issue appears to go away!  

backface culling is not turned on for the object.

my video cards are all updated.  i also looked at max 2017 and i have the same issue.  i use direct 3d 11 and bam, same problem.  i switch to direct 3d 9 and problem gone.  hm. crazy.

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

Hello @grue1970,

The Titan X Hybrid isn't on the list of certified cards (Titan X is though), so I'm guessing it's an incompatibility/driver issue of some kind.  Could you please attach the simple file which shows the problem so I can test on my machine?

EDIT:  I have been informed that there is almost no difference between these two cards.  It is very likely they share specs and even though the hybrid isn't on the list it would appear it's the same card as the TitanX.  I see RAM, cooling, and some performance differences between them which may still point at drivers but in terms of hardware compatibility they may be similar.  

Best Regards,

[grue1970]

here's the test scene, thanks!

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

Hello @grue1970,

Thank you for attaching that.  It displays normally for me.  I checked the tracker, internal articles, and even Googled a bit to see if I could find some more info but I came up empty.  This feels like a driver issue to me.   My best suggestion is to try some different drivers for the card or see if there is another version of driver for the card specifically for production.  

Since it works in DX9 it does sort of point toward driver support.  At least, to me.  

Best Regards,

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

One last thing I didn't previously consider is that there may be some switches or modes on the NVIDIA control panel which may have an effect.  Sometimes setting power settings to performance can help with some issues.  It may be that it's using adaptive and deciding those backfaces aren't important.  You may also need to look at some of the other settings in there too.  (Manage Settings.)  

Best Regards,

[grue1970]

ahh... interesting.  i'll look in the control panel settings and see about power management!  thanks. will let you know.

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

Thank you for trying that @grue1970!  I know my post is a bit vague but since those settings can be different per card there's no easy way for me to test that.  I do hope the answer is in there.  

Best Regards,

[grue1970]

hi @Alfred.DeFlaminis

tried to change the power settings.  didn't help.

check this out:

1. image is showing that the back side lines are a darker red as opposed to the facing lines which are brighter red

2. image showing that if i chnage the background color of the viewport from 128 to 84 YOU SEE THE BACK LINES!!!!  even if they are not selected!

what's up!  this might be the solution, but i can't find any setting that says show all wireframe in white?  obviously, i want to have my viewport background 128 color, not 84 anything lighter in color and it starts to get fainter and fainter (the background lines)

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

Hello @grue1970,

I've never seen anything like this before.  I thought it might be a rare instance where the object color and background color were the same, but then we'd see those backlines in white when selected.  Out of curiosity, does resetting your user settings help? 

I am going to try to ask around internally about this to get some feedback from devs/qa.  I'm unsure about what could do this.  

Best Regards,

[grue1970]

ok, here's the result of resetting the ENU folder.  it didn't fix the issue, but the issue is now confirmed to be wire color of the back face.  whne i reset, it of course reset to the dark theme, with dark viewport background.  this dark background was enough to show the wires on the back side almost exactly like what i show in my attachment above.

so now all we need is either default to same color as the facing lines, or manually change the color.

[grue1970]

here's some more info.  screen shots showing customize user interface colors. 

note that if i switch geometry selection color to bright red, the back face lines are dark red.  if i set to bright yellow, the back face lines are dark yellow.  both are visible against 128 viewport background color, yellow just barely ha.

note that at the top of the color selector list, there is a "back face lines" and guess what?  changing that color has zero effect. none at all. nothing visible at least. so not sure what that affects??

[grue1970]

one final thought - this is why this is so important to me, if i'm in wire frame and working on a HUGE mesh, sometimes i'll be under it, say a ground plane mesh, or sometimes i'll be inside the mesh, and need to see the line sub objects!

believe it or not, the whole viewport is filled with a ground mesh i was recently working on in direct3d 9, in this screen shot illustrating the problem, you only see pieces of it that are the top-side of the mesh.

thanks for looking at this. i hope the leg work i've done help direct everyone to narrow down or find an issue and or work around/ fix.  like that option i show in the color settings window...

[Pac_187 · Accepted solution]

There's no exposure for this in the UI of 3Ds Max, but you can disable the darkening of backfacing edges using this maxscript command:

NitrousGraphicsManager.DarkerEdgeOption = #off

The possible options are:

#Off
#SubLevelOnly
#Always

You may also want to take a look at the maxscript help:

http://help.autodesk.com/view/3DSMAX/2018/ENU/?guid=__files_GUID_34892DB6_E840_4F52_9175_30332799B7B...

(If you change colors inside the color settings of 3Ds Max, you might need to restart the software until all changes display correctly)

[grue1970]

HOLY SH*T THAT DID IT!

THANK YOU A TON!!!!

i'll look over that link.  thanks, i'm afraid i might not understand it all, but worth looking at it!

ps - i did change that back face color and left it, restarted max a few times since then and it still didn't seem to change anything.

but wow, that command line maxscript awesome.  i'll create a button for it or something.

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

Excellent post @Pac_187, I learned something today.  

Did that also resolve your culling issue @grue1970?

The back line color doesn't seem to be working, I will log it.  

Best Regards,

[grue1970]

yes, that was totally the issue.  and it fits perfectly with observations that the back lines were always some degree darker than the facing lines - dark red in back with bright red in front, dark yellow in back and bright yellow in front.  so it makes sense that white selection in front would darker in back which in this case turns out to be very close to what my viewport background color was.  everything makes sense now. ha!