Hello All
I am having issues with the associativity between Simulation 2012 and Inventor 2012 with SURFACE MODELS only.
When you bring a change over from inventor with a solid model all loads and material properties are retained.
However when models containing surface elements are updated all loads and material properties are lost. Is there a work around for this?
I have tried using assemblies with parts containing only surfaces, however Simulation refuses to accept this. It will only accept parts containing surfaces if they are not in assemblies.
I have tried using solid models and midplane meshing the results however the mesh quality at the joins between plates is not up to scratch.
This problem is costing me a lot of time. I am dealing with complicated thin wall tanks and containers with large numbers of load cases.
Thanks
Matt Kurtze
Solved! Go to Solution.
Solved by MattKurtze5538. Go to Solution.
Hi,
How can you add loading for surface only part under Inventor simulation environment? For release 2012, I think that these kind of features are not supported at all, only 3d models are supported for inventor simulation. You may be able to create inventor surface and switch to inventor simulation environment for release 2012, but no loading can be added for the pure surface.
hupn
Hi,
Actually you are clear and I understood that you was transferring inventor CAD model to Autodesk Simulation. However; you mentioned that the loading of surface only model get lost after transferring. Then what kind of loadings that you define in Inventor side? How do you define it? That's what I did not quite get.
hupn
After modifying geometry in Inventor and the geometry part or surface ID are changed, (this usually happens at relative multiple parameter changes or rearrangement in CAD), you will lost the loadings/constraints/material properties which were defined in simulation before since they were specified in previous surface or part ID.
This is weird and usually should not happen; probably your model is polluted already. Could you try starting from a fresh CAD model, and doing the workflow back and forth to see if this is repeatable? Another possibility is the software issue which can't handle your specific CAD geometry/feature.
it will be good you can post the sample models for the root. Thanks.
Hi,
That's a clear workflow. I did can re-produce the issue here. Loading and even the material properties get lost. I think it is a software bug when handling the associativity of surface only model. Thanks for the observation. Unfortunately, I do not have a good workaround yet since you mentioned that creating mid-surface way by using 3d thin part has un-satisfied effect. I will post it if I can find a good workaround.
hupn
Hi Matt,
You mention that you have a "large number of load cases". If you really mean loads (forces, pressures, etc) and have no geometry changes (other than thickness), then you can do the multiple load cases within Simulation. Each "load case" results in a different set of results, but all within the same analysis.
But, my guess is that you need to make geometry changes instead of just loads, materials, plate thickness (all of which can be done within Simulation, so no loss of input.) The midplane mesher actually has two different algorithms. If you have not tried both on your solid model, you may have more success with the second algorithm. (As you pointed out, solid models maintain the associativity with the Inventor model.) Try "Mesh > Mesh > 3D Mesh Settings > Midplane > Options > Midplane" and activate (check the box for) "Use junction method".
If neither of those two suggestions get what you need, then some combination of these tricks may help. Some of these methods require the Simulation model to be multiple parts instead of one part. (I am not sure how Simulation treats surface models and whether you can get multiple parts.)
Let us know how it goes.
I totally agree, I am also having huge issues with plate/shell models as all properties, loads and BC' s are gone after resending a model to Sim.
As for assemblies one way to go is to make a single part file and create one feature for each part. Then Sim. Recognizes each feature as parts.
Another workaround if you need to have an assembly made out of parts as surfaces and perhaps also some solids in the same assy is to make a step file. Then Sim recognizes everything.
/ H. Nilsson
Hello
Revisiting this issue.
Is Autodesk working on getting the associativity of surfaces working properly?
Its really annoying and costing me a LOT of time.
Regards
Matt
A knowing issue is that the surface based loads get lost if the surface IDs change after CAD parameter changes in either Inventor or simulation (using "fx" icon). I am not sure if this apply to your case, you can check the related surface IDs change before and after the CAD parameter update.
Hello Everyone,
For what it's worth, I am also an user that depends heavily on the plate simulation on inventor models and this issue described is really annoying.
As it was already stated: I also lose a LOT of time reseting everything.....
But not only that. I myself can't understand why the integration between inventor and simulation is so bad.
Apart from the data inside simulation that disappears every time the model is refreshed, there are also the following things that are ignored:
1- Names of the features are ignored.
2- The colour of the feature is ignored.
There was also some other things, but this is just a start...
Sincerely!
Hello
It is not just the surface based loads, but all surface properties. ie material,thickness,bc's and loads. Its as if the surface 'parts' are deleted and replaced every time you update the model from within inventor. Also note that this happes even if the geometry is not changed at all. Simply hitting send to simulation removes all this data from simulation.
This does not happen with solid parts. Everything works fine then.
As I said VERY ANNOYING.
In fact I am allmost considering chasing a refund, as I reported this fault about 12 months ago and AD have got no closer to a resolution. Actually I have not even had a response indicatiing that AD have taken what I have said on board.
Regards
Matt
Hi Matt and other surface modelers,
I am sure it is frustrating, especially since plate models are a better representation of thin solids, so you are doing the right thing by creating and using them, and then you have information lost each time you make a change.
I wish that I could, but I cannot give you any news about any upcoming enhancements because
a) I do not know what the status is,
b) government regulations prevent us from discussing software that is not released. (It has to do with people making purchasing, or renewal, decisions based on what is "supposed" to be in the new software. The problem with "promises" is that any particular feature will be withdrawn from the release if it is not "ready" for release.)
In the meantime, here are some options:
A) I just discovered that Fusion 2012 has plate element associativity with Simulation Mechanical 2012! In other words, loads, constraints, and part input is retained after changing the model in Fusion!! So before starting the next model, open your surface model in Fusion, make the changes, and export it to Mechanical. Fusion is a CAD app that is shipped (and installed automatically?) with Mechanical. I do not know whether the version we provide has full interop with Inventor or not. I have seen Inventor models that are modified with Fusion pushed back to Inventor, and the features update within Inventor.
B) If you prefer to stay strictly with Inventor, the following work-around can be used to keep as much data as possible.
Granted. Method B is not the best solution, but hopefully a whole lot better than starting from scratch!
Hello All
I have found a valid work around to my earlier problem, thanks to all that have helped.
1. create surface model as a part
2. create derived parts linked to the above model for all surfaces needing separate identities within simulation
3. create an assembly of the above parts
4. save a close.
5. open the assembly in fusion, DO NOT EDIT OR SAVE
6. push model to simulation, and close fusion.
Then if you need to change anything
1. save simulation, you dont need to close it
2. re-open the assembly, masterpart ect...
3. make required changes and save + close
4. open in fusion and push to simulation DO NOT EDIT OR SAVE
5. the simulation is updated with full associativity for surfaces, and descriptive part names for simulation parts.
Now this extra step is annoying, but less annoying than re-entering all your data.
Cheers
Matt