Complete Plumbing drawings

[Anonymous]

Has ANYONE taken plumbing all the way through CD. We are fighting the industry standard and new technology here in my AE firm. How should we approach? I am working on my second plumbing job in Revit MEP and it still looks bad. How are other doing this. I would like to discuss some stratagies for how create construction documents. I am afraid that the document are going to come back with tons of RFI and CCDs.
Please contact me and let me know how you are covering this discipline.

Thanks.

[abulla]

Short answer? AutoCAD.

Revit has a looong way to go to get plumbing looking right in 2d.

[Anonymous]

Long answer and this statement is true. Revit MEP content is behind; pipe fittings can only rotate in 90degree increments when really they should be able to rotate 360degrees in any increment (perhaps users should be able to control this). There are only systems for domestic water, sanitary, hydronic supply & return, and other. What is the purpose of putting in other, give us the ability to create our own systems or put in all of the piping systems that are in AutoCAD MEP layer key and let us bring in the systems we need for our jobs? To clarify what systems I am talking about go to AutoCAD MEP2008>Style Manager>Plumbing Objects>Plumbing System Definitions>Layer Key: and you will find most of the systems that we need. The plumbing sides of things are a lot more complex then what is provided. Also the systems in this layer key would be nice for HVAC piping and ductwork as well. Another item I noticed is that there are no carriers for water closet or urinals provide with this software (It might be helpful to talk with manufacturers such as Zurn, Wade, Charlotte Pipe, etc. for common pipes, pipe fittings and accessories). Perhaps people can post more detailed information from this thread that they would like to see in later issues. After saying all of that I have to say to Autodesk that this seems to be the best product out there and is headed in the right track. Keep up the good work!!! Edited by: W.Neuok on Nov 13, 2008 4:55 PM

[Anonymous]

Is it reasonable to think that following the Industry Standard is out the window for plumbing. We have come up with creative ways to show intent, in the end is it better, more confusing, or wrong? We have tried showing less on the plans and more on the riser diagrams.
Should there not be connections to fixtures? It is done in the field the way the contractor wants to do it anyway? It does clean up the drawing and show less clutte, only showing mains and risers? Is anyone using Revit for a project of any size? I am working on two projects over 100k sqft and it is out of hand. We are not having a problem with HVAC or Electical so my management is not understanding the problems.

I think we are heading in the right direction and believe this program will come around. That does not help now though.

Has anyone meet with other consultants that are using it? How do the plans look? Is Revit creating a new industry standard?

Thanks

[Anonymous]

I was looking at other posts you have commented on and noticed you issue with large projects (100k+ sq. ft.). We are on the brink of getting into a large high school project (200k+ sq. ft.). Do you have any suggestions or warnings before we get in over our head? What type of projects do you typically work on?

[w.neuok]

I am currently working on a 150k sq. ft. Lab and so far for DD have shown only the piping mains; we will soon be working on the rest of the piping. For now until Revit is further along we are going to do a hybrid AutoCAD/Revit MEP project. It is not easy to draw piping in Revit because there is not enough manufacturers’ on board for families, the fittings are difficult to manipulate and the piping systems are not all there. However, the HVAC side of the program is far better than AutoCAD MEP and seems to be worth using Revit MEP for these benefits. Edited by: W.Neuok on Nov 13, 2008 3:56 PM

[Anonymous]

We're working on our first project, 35k sqft new and 11k remodel of a junior high school gym. We are also doing the AutoCAD/Revit method. We decided to do the HVAC and Hydronics on Revit, Plumbing in AutoCAD. We have started the electrical in Revit, but I think the designer is going to abandon her work and go back to AutoCAD!
We are still in DD, but we're starting to run out of time in the budget and we need to make more headway. it's a struggle just to place a family at the right offset.

[Anonymous]

To make the process easier set up some view templates. This will allow you to make sure all your drawing are the same.

My advice is to try and keep it simple. Because I soon as you get detailed you will find lots of flaws. Make sure you are showing design intent. Refer to riser diagrams if you need and add text for clarification, also you have isometrics or 3D if you need. There are lots of out of the box thinking that will go on.

I work on commercial, institutional, and healthcare. I am currently working on my fifth MEP project. Each one is getting better then the last.

[Anonymous]

Hybrid drawings.....Eeeeew
Use lots of sections, detail call outs, & 3d views to display your intent. They dont take long to generate cos once the model's done they are already hiding in there.
The same kind of quality checks you would have done on an ACAD drawing are still required obviously. Making sure everything is understandable & buildable. And clarifying with notes where needed.
One of our senior guys (who has Revitphobia) past the comment that the look of drawings was returning to 40 years ago (a good thing is his book) i.e. more detail views and less text on the layout plan.
In response to the OP. Yes, we did the whole facility in this office, but its one of those projects you're not allowed to talk about.

[Anonymous]

Just completed my 1st Revit (v.2011) project

- 6 floor, 250 unit apartment complex with retail on the first floor, 2 levels of underground parking.

OMG it is not pretty on the plumbing side. Used Acad for details and, yes, risers. Found the drawing to be the easy part. 

Why Autodesk is so short sighted on the piping side, I don't know. I have used other 3D piping programs for industrial piping and found the whole process much less intimidating, easier to understand and not so limiting. One program even made it extremely easy to make a 3d movie of a walk thru of the building.

As a plumbing designer, I really need to know the structure obstacles of the building to create something close to what contractors will install. Most models I see have no structural information. Plus there is the conflict of at the end of the day, the Engineer signs drawings. Plumbing drawings, even at 1/4" scale are diagrammatic. Sure, with Revit one can create an installation model, but at 1/8" per foot scale, the drawings look like someone went crazy with a thick black Sharpie marker.

I find it not very intuitive to isolate architectural elements or hide the ones I don't need.

If I had a choice, which I don't, I would look for another program to do 3d piping.

[Anonymous]

 I recently completed a project in REVIT (I did all HVAC & Plumbing) from the contractors side & have attached a finished drawing. Obviously I am just showing the Plumbing here & there is a lot more duct & pipe. I  do not know if this helps but tell me what you think.