Drawing files increasing in size with each open/save - becoming unusable

[ssomers]

We have been having a MAJOR problem with a particular project's dwg files. In a number of files, we noticed that the file sizes were getting out of control until the files were unusable. When we looked at previous saves, we noticed that each time the drawing was opened fresh and saved, the file would increase anywhere from 10-20mb. Upon testing, this would happen even if no work was done in the drawing - simply opening it and saving it as-is would cause the file size to jump dramatically. 

We were able to go through our sheets and "solve" the problem by saving down to .dxf, doing a "-purge" of all entities, and then saving it back to a C3D file. Some of our drawings lost the Civil 3D dynamic labels in the process so we had to do some re-labeling (some retained the labels), but all the drawings came back down to a very reasonable file size (most about 2mb, except the grading plan with all our feature lines and surfaces which rests at 17mb).

We did not have to do this to our main base file because it seemed to be holding true at 22mb. Since it has all of our pipe networks, alignments, and profile views, I really did not want to save down and lose all the dynamic data).

Well, it seems that our base file (attached PPLN) has started exhibiting the same odd behavior. It's not just my workstation either. Anyone who has tried to open the file gets the same result. There is some kind of corruption or hidden data that is duplicating itself - or something like that - that's causing the drawing file size to balloon out of control until it's so big that it's unusable and takes 15 minutes to open. 

We still have to finish this project, so we absolutely need this file to work properly. I'm hoping we can get some help from someone who maybe has an idea what's going on so we can get this problem resolved. We've spent over 40 man-hours trying to resolve this on our own and with the support of our software distributor. I just submitted a support request to AutoDesk itself, but I'm not holding my breath that they'll come up with a solution in time.

I'm using C3D 2017 and I've already updated to service pack 1.1 (after uninstalling SP1.0) and the problem continues to exhibit itself. I would try to see if the problem could be replicated on C3D 2016, but oh, wait, 2017 isn't backwards compatible... because of course it's not /s.

The problem doesn't seem to be happening in any other projects. After going through the save-down process with one of our sheets, we noticed that it might be the pipe labels causing the problem, but I haven't been able to confirm that or find a workaround. 

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS GOOD AND DECENT IN THE WORLD... IN THE SPIRIT OF CHRISTMAS, SOMEONE HELP ME WITH THIS FILE. And it would be even better if you could help us understand the root cause. I've attached the unaltered file to this post.

Merry Christmas.

[tcorey]

This is likely attributable to a known issue, solved:

http://www.deltaengineeringsystems.com/support/

[ssomers]

Tried that. Still happens with SP1.1 as mentioned in the original post. I would be curious if others who have SP1.1 encounter the same problem if they open and save. At least I can narrow it down to something up with our system.

I did double check the AeccNetwork.dbx and it is the correct version for SP1.1.

[ssomers]

*UPDATE*

Autodesk customer support actually did get in touch with me within a few hours, which was a nice surprise. After various troubleshooting efforts, we narrowed it down to a problem with the network.

When files are saved to our server, they will increase in size each time they're opened and saved, but when they are saved to a local drive, the file size does not increase. Doing an audit shows that there are hundreds of thousands of objects that are unaccounted for physically, but that cannot be purged or removed - almost as if our server is somehow causing objects to duplicate themselves each time the file is opened and saved.

While we still don't have a solution, we will now have to work with our hardware techs to figure out what's going on with this particular project.

If anyone has had a similar problem in the past, or any problems with AutoCAD/server interaction, feel free to chime in. 

Thank you,

[ssomers]

*UPDATE 2*

So my coworker copied our entire CAD folder to his desktop and disconnected from our server. When he opened one of the drawings, it still ballooned on him. We did a little further testing and found that when we pulled a drawing out of the CAD folder and saved it on its own locally, it would not grow in size, but when the file was opened from within the CAD folder locally (server still disconnected), the file would grow. So it’s as if there is something referenced in there that is causing the growth.

I don’t think it’s a drawing that’s xrefed, I’m leaning toward a data reference. When I copied just the drawing xrefs to a local folder on my PC and then opened the sheets (without messing with data shortcuts), opening and saving the files did not increase the file size.

Any new ideas?

[ssomers]

*UPDATE 3*

Autodesk has been working on a solution to this problem. It definitely looks to be a bug in the program. A major, killer bug that has cost us 30-40 man-hours of down time up to this point. I will try to remember to update this thread if a solution is found.

[Hidden_Brain]

See link below for the proxygraphics tip by @KirkWM. Might be worth a shot:

https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/autocad-civil-3d-forum/file-size-increases-after-save/m-p/6751987#M32...

[sboon]

Based on the description this sounds like some sort of circular reference issue.  Do you have surfaces that are pasted into one another?  Are there surfaces created from grading objects or corridors that are used for other purposes?

Steve
Please use the Accept as Solution or Kudo buttons when appropriate

[ssomers]

There is one surface that is pasted into another surface, but it is never referenced anywhere (it isn't even set up to be data shortcuted). There are no grading objects in any of my surfaces anymore - they all get exploded as they are just too buggy. This particular project also does not have any corridors.

Basically, I have a Surface.dwg with a full existing surface (we'll call it EG) made completely from polylines at elevation added as contour data. Then I have another surface (we'll call it Addendum) that was created using points obtained from a LiDAR survey after the EG Surface was built. The Addendum surface was pasted into the EG surface after the contour polylines were trimmed out of the area encompassed by the Addendum. Only the EG is data referenced in other drawings. The Surface.dwg is not xrefed into any other drawing either.

This EG may be a cause of some problems, but I'm not sure that it's due to a circular reference. Autodesk is looking into this surface to see if it's bugged somehow.

[cwitzel]

I have had this problem and I know it has been sent to AD.

I am willing to bet it is a surface.  Our solution was to delete the offending surface then re-reference.  If there was annotation we created a dummy surface and moved all the annotations to that, then deleted, re-referenced and moved the annotations back.  This does work, but is time consuming and doesn't work for profiles or pipes.

I am hoping they fix it soon.  In our case drawings would double in size every save.

Hope that helps,

[cwitzel]

I should note.  It has happened to us on random projects, but more than one.

My feeling is that for whatever reason it is creating multiple copies of the surface every time it is saved, but I don't know for sure.

We did not have any pastes or circular references and the original surface file was error free.

Thanks,

[sboon]

There have been some changes in the way that referenced data is handled in the software.  I'm speculating a bit, but this is starting to sound like it's related to that.

Steve
Please use the Accept as Solution or Kudo buttons when appropriate

[Anonymous]

Hi were you able to find a solution? We are having the exact same problem with our files and suspect it is our surface.

[dbrice]

Hello,

We're having the same issues at my company. We have files that are 271 MB (275 MB after Autodesk Troubleshot) and growing, for no reason. The Civil 3D Degradation Fix did/does not work for our files. I had an Autodesk Specialist troubleshoot the 271 MB file and he wasn't able to reduce the size or issues, after applying the so called "FIX" Autodesk has released. We have TONS of files (in 5 Offices) that are either taking 5 mins. or more to open, crashing or failing to open at all. Then to top it "ALL" off, the file continues to grow when it is saved. Although, there were no changes made and no new data added. I really wish Autodesk or Someone/Anyone would help those of use who are still being affected! 

I'm all PURGED, -PURGED, RECOVERED & AUDITED OUT!

On a brighter note, thanks for confirming I wasn't crazy! (LOL)

[dbrice]

ssomers,

Anymore, updates? The issue at my company mirrors yours!

Thanks,

[Anonymous]

Do the files you are having problems with all have a surface data referenced in it?

We are are having a similar issue at our company and are narrowing it down to a surface that is data referenced. Have you tried to turn off the cache surface setting. That seemed to work for us the first time around but for whatever reason the problem is back even with the surface cache setting turned off.

[dbrice]

Yes, they have surface data referenced into them. I'll try turning the Cache Surface Setting off and see if that works. So, your issue is back? This is getting ridiculous.

[ssomers]

Unfortunately, there is, as of yet, no solution to this problem. The current work-around is to delete the referenced surface from any drawings currently experiencing this problem and then re-reference the surface back in. Problem is, you have to (or at least should) change all your surface labels and pipe networks to reference a different surface (I just created a "Temp" surface with nothing in it).

Then, after you re-reference your surface, you have to go through all your pipe networks and surface labels and point them back to the original surface. And you have to go through your profile views and add the surface profile back in for that surface if you want them to remain dynamic. There may be other items that you have to re-integrate as well, but in our case this was all we had to worry about. 

It's certainly not an easy workaround or a quick one. After a few days' process troubleshooting with Autodesk, once we finally narrowed it down to an issue with the data-referenced surface, I received the following reply:

I cannot say when a solution will be available but I will be sure to let you know when it is.

For your records, the defect ID is CIVIL-18747.

Per process, with the case escalated to the development team it is closed with Technical Support as there is no more troubleshooting for us to go through. Despite this the case will be attached to the defect to advocate for a quick resolution to this issue.

I can say the developers are aware of this issue and are testing fixes now.  I can't give a concrete date on when a fix will be available.

So we, the consumers, are left to beta-test software without any recourse when it fails and our real-world project are left crippled. This business of offering subscription service so that they are more or less forced to pump out a new version of AutoCAD each year is dubious to say the least. I understand that it's not easy to design software that's used in so many different setups and environments, but that's not an excuse for putting out software with such a game-breaking bug. Unfortunately, since Autodesk has the market cornered, they can pretty much do as they please until the lawsuits come (which will only make the software more expensive).

[dbrice]

WOW! I suspected as much, when the Autodesk Specialist couldn't help me resolve my issue, yesterday! Especially, since I haven't heard anything from them today and they promised they would follow up. It's sad!

I'm glad you were able to find a workaround! Unfortunately doing this workaround, on "SO" many files in 5 Offices Nationwide, is going to be a TALL ORDER for my company. I guess we may have to use it on a case by case scenario.

Thanks, I appreciate your assistance!

[sboon]

Throwing this out there - create a snapshot of the surface in the source drawing, and then delete ALL of the definition data.  Open the Definition tab of that surface and delete everything except the snapshot, then erase/purge everything possible from the drawing so that all you have left is a pure TIN.

I am hoping that if there's nothing else in the source file it will stop adding new stuff to the reference.

Steve
Please use the Accept as Solution or Kudo buttons when appropriate