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Tube and Pipe Overhaul

26 REPLIES 26
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Message 1 of 27
salariua
1666 Views, 26 Replies

Tube and Pipe Overhaul

Need your help guys,

 

I’m fed up with all the bugs and problems I have with Tube and Pipe and for the period of one week I wrote down all the things that got in the way of working and being productive.

 

I haven’t posted the problems under separate idea posts because I want us to get a general overhaul of this outdated module rather than getting patches, fixes, and workarounds.

 

I am sure that even non Tube and Pipe users will cast a vote especially for things like: "28 - Exit without saving still saves changes".

 

http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/inventor-ideastation/tube-and-pipe-overhaul/idi-p/5518269

 

Thank you all.

Adrian S.
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26 REPLIES 26
Message 2 of 27
salariua
in reply to: salariua

I want to resurface this post and keep it new so I will post 1 item each day out of the Idea Station post just to keep it current on the forum. This should keep it fresh for the next couple of months.

 

As a way of thanking those who voted and to hopefully persuade others who didn’t I decided to post their names to acknowledging and salute their effort in improving Tube and Pipe module.

 

[RobertWK]   [-niels-]   [RayFeiler]   [cwhetten]   [mgauthier]   [drfleau]   [Dan.M]   [cbenner]   [jessica.t]   [swalton]   [nmunro]   [karthur1]   [erazorzedge]   [AlexF1980]   [lauravenuto]   [Curtis_Waguespack]   [gravesdave]   [ChrisMitchell01]   [exSWX]   [michael.marx]   [taboada]   [AlexanderVokes]   [timdown73]   [tasnadipeter]   [flora_fang]   [Mark_Wigan]   [mikeh]   [bartd]   [streharg]   [EScales]   [Fori123]   [tmoney2007]   [jberns]   [CADDapult]   [nmattel]   [sisch]   [michaelsass94]   [tibbyjs]   [sulb]   [jimmykane51]   [trevor]   [jasonm]   [shawn.payne]   [smccoywm]   [stefanbergsten]   [stuarts]   [S_Verbeek]   [bverboort]   [mslosar]   [guillaume.garcia]   [frank.beier]   [elizabeth.garr]   [fsanchou]   [klaus.brunner]   [admaiora]   [al_inventor]   [sistcon]   [robmatthews]   [Crstiano]   [lesmfunk]   [jeremy.wasserstrass]   [SerkanCicek]   [SveinE]   [pkainer]   [n.riccarand]   [GNR88]   [scottmoyse]   [neilma1970]   [GuanZi432100]   [StephenBarron]   [julesgf]   [ASI_Aaron]   [gianluca.larocca]   [lindgrr]   [purkey]   [jeffwente5345]   [cad.administrator]   [Maarten65]   [BenjaminFaure4072]   [NSBowser]   [matteo.pallaroni]   [complex2014]   [pierre.bantjes]   [Raider_007]   [tymoteusz.dubkiewicz]

 

 

Thank you all, will try to update the list of voters weekly, meanwhile, get your friends and co-workers to help us with a vote.

 

Adrian S.
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Message 3 of 27
salariua
in reply to: salariua

1 - If you don’t populate the route it can be really hard to place fittings. It doesn’t snap to nodes. Need to increase the snap influence area (or make the nodes bigger) so you can drop parts without populating the routes because this affects performance especially on large assemblies where we don’t populate until the very end. In the first part of the animation I am trying to place while in route only (or an unpopulated route) and it fails while with “populated” / ”display all objects” it’s really easy to drop fittings. Glyph and node custom size value needs implementing (nodes, arrows, etc), in T&P settings (template file) or even better in Inventor Settings customizable per user. I’ve seen a lot of requests from users of FEA and other modules as well for this.

 

001_small.gif

Adrian S.
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Message 4 of 27
salariua
in reply to: salariua

2 - Possibility to increase the arrow sizes (glyph) when routing or rotating in T&P settings (template file) or even better in Inventor Settings customizable per user. I hold the mouse over the arrow direction while typing an angle and I constantly need to increase the size to make sure the mouse doesn’t run away and that it stays on the arrow.

 

Adrian S.
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AIP2012-2020 i7 6700k AMD R9 370
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Message 5 of 27
salariua
in reply to: salariua

 3 - While in route you can’t delete multiple work features in Included Geometry, and you need to select and delete each one individually. This is very time consuming, and we need to be able to use delete on selected items.

 

image003.gif

Adrian S.
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AIP2012-2020 i7 6700k AMD R9 370
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Message 6 of 27
Anonymous
in reply to: salariua

I definately agree with this post.
Message 7 of 27
salariua
in reply to: Anonymous

Thank YOU!

 

Please vote on the idea station, that's where counts.

 

Go to this link and vote there, click on Kudos on the top left next to the Idea Options

http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/inventor-ideastation/tube-and-pipe-overhaul/idi-p/5518269

 

 

Adrian S.
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AIP2012-2020 i7 6700k AMD R9 370
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Message 8 of 27
Anonymous
in reply to: salariua

Done 🙂
Message 9 of 27
salariua
in reply to: salariua

4 - When inserting a node into a route the newly created segments should try and maintain (copy maybe) the original segment’s constraints and dimensions. We only need to dimension the position of the newly inserted node in regard to existing geometry. Fully constrained sketches go crazy when inserting a single node, removing existing constraints and deleting dimensions in the process as well.

 

image004.gif

 

link to vote: http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/inventor-ideastation/tube-and-pipe-overhaul/idi-p/5518269

 

Adrian S.
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AIP2012-2020 i7 6700k AMD R9 370
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Message 10 of 27
salariua
in reply to: salariua

Here comes #5 ..and we have a long way to go.

 

5 - When placing fittings you get a rotation dialog but no “edit connection” or “change size” dialog. While in rotation mode an edit connection / change size should be available in the right click menu. You now need to start each command separately; you finish placing, select fitting, edit connection, select the fitting, change size, select fitting again, and so on in way too many steps. When you finish the Edit Connection /Change Size it should revert back to rotation mode dialog. I place similar fittings from adjacent runs because it’s easy but most of the time they are of different size and they need a different connecting dimension.

 

image005.gif

Adrian S.
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AIP2012-2020 i7 6700k AMD R9 370
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Message 11 of 27
salariua
in reply to: salariua

6 - Not all commands have shortcut keys or can be assigned keys to them. I don’t use the ribbon, and we all like the keyboard shortcut keys so please have them all available. Some things I will mention: edit fitting orientation, edit fitting connections, change fitting diameter, restore fitting, finish route (read bellow on why go to parent CTRL+ENTER is not working) etc. All these commands are only available from the right click menu or ribbon making it time consuming to use.

 

image006.png

Adrian S.
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Message 12 of 27
salariua
in reply to: salariua

Forgot to do it yesterday... It's going to be a long thread, but I am hopping you guys will chime in with comments and more issues.

 

7 - Included geometry inside routes (planes, points) should have visibility off as soon as you exit the route. I haven’t found anyone that needs those visible once outside the route. You certainly don’t use them for “include geometry” in other routes. Turning the visibility from visibility menu / object visibility is not an option especially for large assemblies; we need proper off for each and every, not needing to manually change their state. I would not complain if you could turn multiple features off instead of one at a time as mentioned down bellow but even better turn them off automatically and let us turn them on if we want/need to once outside the routes.

 

image007.gif

Adrian S.
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Message 13 of 27
salariua
in reply to: salariua

And the today post. I sure hope we get branches in future releases.

 

8 - Branches are an absolute must, tees or not. If the user doesn’t specifies a tee family in the style library (need to add a tee selection menu there) then pipes would intersect to simulate a welded connection. Notches in the larger pipe diameter should be added automatically if user settings “notch matching branches” in style selected, just like in the branch fitting author dialog. I’ve never used a cross (too expensive, company standard to avoid them) so I can’t advice on those but on tees if you have three lines with end points coincident, two of them collinear and third perpendicular (or 45 for Y) then that’s a tee connection. At least give us the option to connect them and manually place the tee, right now it complains about branches not being allowed, so you can’t connect nodes. My work around is to dimension nodes at a distance but the sketch is not fully constrained and the route segment can jump since more than one solution exists. This is how it needs to work:

 

image008.gif

Adrian S.
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AIP2012-2020 i7 6700k AMD R9 370
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Message 14 of 27
salariua
in reply to: salariua

And the daily routine goes on. Here comes number 9.

 

9 - All routes need to be constrained and grounded at T&P origin to stop them from flying around. What’s the reason for not having it this way? Fittings inside the runs get connected around but the run itself never gets constrained, or moved around, individual routes are constrained by using include geometry. If needed the ground should be available to manually remove. Currently I am manually constraining the Tube and Pipe assembly and all the runs in it because if you move it by just a bit you’re pulling your hair wondering why it’s skewed.

 

image009.gif

Adrian S.
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Message 15 of 27
salariua
in reply to: salariua

Bank holiday and busy schedule kept me away but I finally got time to update this.

 

 

10 - When placing from content center the fittings default size selection should be the last used size, instead of defaulting to first item in the list every time. This way when you start placing fittings you only choose size first time, and the rest should follow. Different route? Different size? Then change size first placed item and the rest should follow again. I was going to suggest using the run size for each content center placed fitting but each run can have multiple routes each with its own size.

 

image010.gif

 

 

Adrian S.
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Message 16 of 27
salariua
in reply to: salariua

11 - Allow multiple T&P assemblies to exist and to be editable in the same assembly. Each assembly can have only one Tube and Pipe subassembly, editable at one time, if you need to edit an assembly with multiple skids or multiple layouts (more than one T&P) assembly you can't at the moment.

 

image011.gif

 

 

Adrian S.
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Message 17 of 27
salariua
in reply to: salariua

12 - When equipment moves (defer update, or changed outside main assembly) the routes go into “violation” mode where they turn pink, and all components of the route have visibility off. At this point the route is partially blocked for editing, you can delete constraints or segments but you can’t start a route in a different point or most important can’t insert nodes. I insert nodes to change direction, orientation and brake and fix routes but I need to do it before moving equipment predicting what might go wrong, or use undo, redo to bounce back and forward predicting how the change might affect the route. Deleting segments is not an option because the end points of the segments might hold fittings that get deleted in the process and need re-placing.

 

image012.png

 

Adrian S.
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AIP2012-2020 i7 6700k AMD R9 370
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Message 18 of 27
salariua
in reply to: salariua

13 - T&P equipment should change size dynamically. Each Content Center fitting (pipe, elbows, tees, etc.) should get the size from the previously item populated. If I drop a reducer in the line the rest of the fittings and segments items should change automatically (Prompt the user if he wants to change, the rest of the elements along the route). The limitation here would be that it works with Content Center and iparts only, not individual authored fittings, because they don’t have a family table to feed from so they will not change as the rest (they can’t). This is how it needs to work:

 

image013.gif

Adrian S.
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AIP2012-2020 i7 6700k AMD R9 370
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Message 19 of 27
salariua
in reply to: salariua

14 - Stop routes from jumping while dragging nodes. The only way to check if a route is fully constrained and movable segments is to drag random nodes and see if they are moving. Sometimes more than one solution error occurs when the route jumps on either side of a dimension. Use negative/positive dimensions like with planes, or positive along origin indicators and negative in opposite direction, or lock the dimension in place and allow a flip option on a right click contextual menu. Sometimes a route is fully constrained but because of more than one solution on these dimensions it doesn’t report or change colour to fully constrained, or even worse, when changing dimensions you end up with overlapping and intersecting segments which goes into “Route Violation”.

 

image014.gif

Adrian S.
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Message 20 of 27
salariua
in reply to: salariua

http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/inventor-ideastation/tube-and-pipe-overhaul/idi-p/5518269

 

Number 15. This is really annoying...

 

15 - Pressing the “Return” or “Return to Parent” (CTRL+ENTER or CTRL+=) button will not exit the route environment, it will send you to 3D Sketch forcing you to press “CTRL+ENTER” again to exit route into run environment. Key shortcut for Finish Route is needed we don’t like to hunt for buttons on hidden menus ( I keep mine as Minimize to Tabs to increase display area). Sometimes when exiting the environment by using CTRL+ENTER twice doesn’t restore the visibility of the route components to on, so you need to select them all and turn them visible or edit the route and exit with the “finish route” button on the ribbon.

 

image015.gif

 

 

Adrian S.
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AIP2012-2020 i7 6700k AMD R9 370
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