how to get rid of multiple environment switches

[cikho]

hello everyone.

this is an issues i get everytime i merge 2 vred scenes.

whenever i do this, i open a parent vred file, i select to import a child vred project, and flag the option to use the scene environments and not the file ones.

this more or less works, environments does not get imported, but the envirnoment switch does, and the new one suddenly becomes the default one, even if it is empty.

and there's no way of deleting it: the new one is default and the old one is referenced.

merging them is impossible.

re-assign the switch is impossible.

is there a way to clear the file up?

it's been 5 years using this software and i keep getting frustrated by overcomplicated stuff wich actually looks absolutely stupid from a user point of view, or stupid things that looks utterly complicated, or even missing functions which either are not there, but where there in older softwares (showcase) or needs a full 13k €\y license to run.

[quirin.friedl · Accepted solution]

The behaviour you describe seems not normal and I never had any of this. But even with the default behaviour, it's a bit strange to get used to how the enironments work in Vred. To answer your main question on how to get rid of them:

Environments behave like materials, you can't delete them when they are still assigned somewhere. Make sure to select your whole geometry and assign the environment switch you want to keep (right click in the material editor on the env>Apply Environment to selected nodes). Then delete all the environments in the switches you want to get rid of. When an env is still in a switch, neither the environment nor the environment switch will get deleted when using "delete unused". Then hit "delete unused materials".

But as I said, it seems that your scenes really don't behave like normal. When importing from another scene using "use scene environment ", no other environment (and switch) gets imported. So maybe you know all of this and it just doesnt work...

[cikho]

yeah, i got where the issue was.. all the materials had the original environments switch assigned under the common drop down.

i think that when you merge 2 scenes, the imported material still have the source file environments assigned here, so it imports the child switch as well.. 

reassigning one of the switch to all the materials in the scene makes me able to delete one of the 2 switches.

once again, this is utterly overcomplicated stuff. i don't even understand how to use this value under the common drop down, i mean can i have a material lit by a different environment? is this how i create custom reflection in realtime?

dunno.. the more i learn the less i understand.. meh

[Christian_Garimberti]

Hi @cikho , i tried several times to reproduce your issue but i never found a duplicated environnement switch.

Maybe you could share some examples just to see if there is something strange...

Best

Chris

[cikho]

i had a couple of tries my self, because creating ad-hoc scene as a sample did not work as well..

what i found out is, if the child scene does not have any environment in it, it will create the described issue.

this happened because i had a library of objects that i might import, such as common resources that was prepared in vred. since the enviroments in these library scenes are not useful, i deleted them.

when you import a VPB with this configuration, somehow a new environment switch is created.

attached you will find a sample folder.

open the parent file, merge the child folder in it and the issue should appear.

the merged scene file has the issue pre-made

[Christian_Garimberti]

Hi @cikho, doing some test with you examples doesn't give me the issue....

i always end with only an environment switch...

I'm using the 2023.3.

But... some advice:

1. why don't you use the asset manager to manage these such of "library" files? it is easier to load and maintain them and you never have problems with environment management
2. or you can think about use the child as a referenced file. Also in this case the environment i think it is not a problem.
3. ... or simply leave the environnement where it is... 😁 maybe the combination of no environments in the file and some settings of the file are forcing Vred to recreate \ bring in also the Environment switch.

Note: with Assets and or reference you cannot manage some features like variants, clips...

About the Showcase nostalgia....

You would never have reached the quality, complexity and speed of Vred with Showcase... But yes, it was a great (and almost free while using Inventor suites) tool.

Best

Chris

[cikho]

I think i will have a look at the asset library idea.

maybe i can manage to create a shared library on a server so other colleagues can use them.

about showcase, i might agree about the quality, but not with the speed statement.

showcase was fast in achieving quick results, it had a fast learning curve, and the cool thing was that the easiest task were easy to achieve. it was somehow smart.

vred sometimes looks overengineered 

its makes you able to achieve a lot of things showcase couldn't, especially from a VR and simulation point of view, but it lacks (in my opinion) flexibility when you need to achieve results quickly, with less attention to the scene setup etc.

you really risk to screw things up quickly.

one of the stupidiest things i found while using vred, for example, is again the management of environments:

lots of options, very complicated.. you set everything up properly, then you randomly delete the environment or assign a random material to the dome.. so you put the environments in a folder with "non selectable" option flagged, you set everything alright once again, then you use the framed drag selection to correct some normals in your model, and because of a tiny little hole in the geometry you change the dome normal too. even if it is set to non selectable. the funny thing is that you cannot change the dome normal by point clicking directly into it. because of course is set to non selectable XD

you actually have to use the mouse drag frame again.

i mean, i understand why the env geometry and env materials are managed separately one from each other, but honestly speaking i would even keep the environment fully separated from materials and the graph.. always non selectable in viewport, and only manageable via parameters in a dedicated windows

[Christian_Garimberti]

I agree with you. About the strange selection behavior i see it like a bug more then a feature... 😉

And working for a company that develop software i know that the complexity of a software is directly related to the number of functionalities present.

The more features there are the more complex it is.

Best

Chris