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CUI Editor Enhancements
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Message 61 of 251
Not applicable
04-20-2006
10:55 AM
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Doug,
All of us could go on an on about specific improvements, but the real problem is Adesk never looked at how real users
use menus. I had heard menus were going to xml in 2006, which did not bother me, so I did not look at it much during
beta testing. Adesk should have been smart enough to push the issue, and warn us.
The fact is the CUI feature came off as a bad surprise party. I would be scared if I was the person in charge of it at
Adesk, what an incredibly embarrassing situation.
So now for info that I hope will help.
Here are the patterns I see with real users, each item should start with -
"They want to be able to..."
1) easily change what pulldowns are shown
2) display or hide toolbars a bunch at once
3) load partial menus in one profile, and not have them be loaded in another unless they say so
4) check the macro behind a button easily
5) make new toolbars and buttons easily
6) change "accellerators" easily
7) switch toolbar, palette, pulldown...locations easily, just like workspaces do, but have control over what portions
of the workspace gets applied. Many people just want to move toolbars or pulldowns, not all or nothing.
For Cad Mangers:
"They want to be able to..."
1) look at a menus code in an editor easily. This does not have to be a raw text editor, but the code must be compact
enough to not get lost. Maybe an xml editor of some sort that just shows the important things.
2) edit the code of a menu directly, because GUI's are so inefficient with handling mass changes
3) copy portions of one menu to another
4) set things up so a user can make changes to their own custom menu, while providing any combination of other menus
loaded
I am sure others could add to these user patterns, I don't mean to say my thoughts are the whole roadmap.
I split this into two categories because you want the interface to the first items to be ultra simple and fast to use.
The cad manager stuff can be more complex and slow.
So if you go down the list, the CUI feature destroyed most of them, but did improve on item 6. I never liked how
reloading the base menu in 2005 and before unloaded the partials. So editing the accellerators required a base menu
reload and was a pain.
I was able to write clones of the old menuload "Menu Bar" tab and LDT's menu palettes, and even improve on them a bit.
If it was not for that, my poor users would have to use the CUI to do the basic things like pulldowns. I can say that
the CUI has all but eliminated users making toolbars. Only a couple of my 150 users here have ventured into trying it,
and this place is CUSTOMIZATION CENTRAL! Before CUI, every user had a custom menu and sets of toolbars. Now they have
me convert their old stuff (involves renaming the icons from ICON_ to RCDATA_ for acad ones) to CUI's, and they don't
touch them anymore.
How else can I say that the whole CUI concept needs to be rethought and redone? The interface, the way things are tied
together, the code format, the migratability...has all failed by any reasonable measure.
I would say this whole thing could be turned around by getting some experienced cad managers who post meaningful stuff
and workarounds on this CUI issue, and have them write a product spec (for free) that users and Adesk could comment on
until its to a doable point. Then add it to Acad? That way, Adesk does not waste its time guessing, and does not have
to pay until the spec is done. Then it pays its programmers to write the code and help documents, thats the only cost
to them. Now that would turn some heads. Along the way, you would get some incredible insight into what makes acad
users tick.
It should scare Adesk a bit that it got it so wrong on the CUI. It forces us subscription people to start asking what
we can do to teach Adesk to listen closer, and it teaches pirates that their money would only encourage bad behavior by
Adesk.
Keep in mind that Autodesk has done what all American's want, they have a monopoly on a product. They deserve to charge
us until we cannot pay any more. We must admire that, not criticize it. But they need to realize that the tighter they
pull the vacuum, the faster it will be filled. Cutting mnu support would be getting close to cutting lisp, and we all
know what product suddenly becomes better than Acad should that happen. Ease of customization is EVERYTHING. Adesk
should know that by now.
dcochran <>
|>Hello,
|>
|>We are looking at ways to improve and enhance the CUI Editor in AutoCAD. As a customer, what improvements would you like to see with CUI?
|>
|>Thanks in advance for your input!
|>
|>Doug Cochran
|>Autodesk, Inc.
James Maeding
Civil Engineer and Programmer
jmaeding - athunsaker - com
All of us could go on an on about specific improvements, but the real problem is Adesk never looked at how real users
use menus. I had heard menus were going to xml in 2006, which did not bother me, so I did not look at it much during
beta testing. Adesk should have been smart enough to push the issue, and warn us.
The fact is the CUI feature came off as a bad surprise party. I would be scared if I was the person in charge of it at
Adesk, what an incredibly embarrassing situation.
So now for info that I hope will help.
Here are the patterns I see with real users, each item should start with -
"They want to be able to..."
1) easily change what pulldowns are shown
2) display or hide toolbars a bunch at once
3) load partial menus in one profile, and not have them be loaded in another unless they say so
4) check the macro behind a button easily
5) make new toolbars and buttons easily
6) change "accellerators" easily
7) switch toolbar, palette, pulldown...locations easily, just like workspaces do, but have control over what portions
of the workspace gets applied. Many people just want to move toolbars or pulldowns, not all or nothing.
For Cad Mangers:
"They want to be able to..."
1) look at a menus code in an editor easily. This does not have to be a raw text editor, but the code must be compact
enough to not get lost. Maybe an xml editor of some sort that just shows the important things.
2) edit the code of a menu directly, because GUI's are so inefficient with handling mass changes
3) copy portions of one menu to another
4) set things up so a user can make changes to their own custom menu, while providing any combination of other menus
loaded
I am sure others could add to these user patterns, I don't mean to say my thoughts are the whole roadmap.
I split this into two categories because you want the interface to the first items to be ultra simple and fast to use.
The cad manager stuff can be more complex and slow.
So if you go down the list, the CUI feature destroyed most of them, but did improve on item 6. I never liked how
reloading the base menu in 2005 and before unloaded the partials. So editing the accellerators required a base menu
reload and was a pain.
I was able to write clones of the old menuload "Menu Bar" tab and LDT's menu palettes, and even improve on them a bit.
If it was not for that, my poor users would have to use the CUI to do the basic things like pulldowns. I can say that
the CUI has all but eliminated users making toolbars. Only a couple of my 150 users here have ventured into trying it,
and this place is CUSTOMIZATION CENTRAL! Before CUI, every user had a custom menu and sets of toolbars. Now they have
me convert their old stuff (involves renaming the icons from ICON_ to RCDATA_ for acad ones) to CUI's, and they don't
touch them anymore.
How else can I say that the whole CUI concept needs to be rethought and redone? The interface, the way things are tied
together, the code format, the migratability...has all failed by any reasonable measure.
I would say this whole thing could be turned around by getting some experienced cad managers who post meaningful stuff
and workarounds on this CUI issue, and have them write a product spec (for free) that users and Adesk could comment on
until its to a doable point. Then add it to Acad? That way, Adesk does not waste its time guessing, and does not have
to pay until the spec is done. Then it pays its programmers to write the code and help documents, thats the only cost
to them. Now that would turn some heads. Along the way, you would get some incredible insight into what makes acad
users tick.
It should scare Adesk a bit that it got it so wrong on the CUI. It forces us subscription people to start asking what
we can do to teach Adesk to listen closer, and it teaches pirates that their money would only encourage bad behavior by
Adesk.
Keep in mind that Autodesk has done what all American's want, they have a monopoly on a product. They deserve to charge
us until we cannot pay any more. We must admire that, not criticize it. But they need to realize that the tighter they
pull the vacuum, the faster it will be filled. Cutting mnu support would be getting close to cutting lisp, and we all
know what product suddenly becomes better than Acad should that happen. Ease of customization is EVERYTHING. Adesk
should know that by now.
dcochran <>
|>Hello,
|>
|>We are looking at ways to improve and enhance the CUI Editor in AutoCAD. As a customer, what improvements would you like to see with CUI?
|>
|>Thanks in advance for your input!
|>
|>Doug Cochran
|>Autodesk, Inc.
James Maeding
Civil Engineer and Programmer
jmaeding - athunsaker - com
Message 62 of 251
Not applicable
04-20-2006
11:00 AM
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"R. Robert Bell" wrote in message
news:5149129@discussion.autodesk.com...
Rick,
I've pondered over this request of yours, and feel you might be missing
something.
Workspaces control the visibility of interface elements *within the
constraints of the loaded cui files*. How would a workspace within a partial
cui file even be created that would "know" of the elements normally
contained by its "master" cui file?
Since a workspace in a partial cui could not
I didn't finish my thought before the battery died.
... know about the elements in its master cui, how would selecting its
workspace be any improvement? Imagine the howls when the standard menus
disappear because someone loaded a partial's workspace.
news:5149129@discussion.autodesk.com...
Rick,
I've pondered over this request of yours, and feel you might be missing
something.
Workspaces control the visibility of interface elements *within the
constraints of the loaded cui files*. How would a workspace within a partial
cui file even be created that would "know" of the elements normally
contained by its "master" cui file?
Since a workspace in a partial cui could not
... know about the elements in its master cui, how would selecting its
workspace be any improvement? Imagine the howls when the standard menus
disappear because someone loaded a partial's workspace.
Message 63 of 251
Not applicable
04-20-2006
11:02 AM
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Yeah, the real issue is that CUI/AutoCAD needs to fully support all mouse
buttons/combos. Regardless of the manufacturer's driver.
--
R. Robert Bell
"Matt Stachoni" wrote in message
news:5149093@discussion.autodesk.com...
On Thu, 20 Apr 2006 14:06:34 +0000, adtuser wrote:
>Hi Matt,
>I don't understand this complaint. You've brought it up many times before.
>Have
>you tried MBUTTONPAN=0? You get all of your menus back.
As I mentioned in my previous post:
>For me and many of my users it's no bargain and we actually have
>MBUTTONPAN=0.
So yeah, I have them back, but miss MBP. I finally resorted to creating a
macro
tied to F6 that swaps them back and forth, but it's still a kludge.
> I for one love the middle mouse button pan and would like to keep it.
I'm not requesting anyone taking it away. Far from it. I simply want the
other
three optional keys back and the freedom to apply MBP to any button or
kbd+mb
combination.
>Have you considered getting a swiss army type mouse with more than 3
>buttons?
Yep. Have one (Logitech MX1000). But the other buttons are just not very
comfortable to use for me, and I have to use Logitech's drivers to assign
them.
And even then I have to first assign a macro (except for MBP's press-drag
pan
action) to a keyboard macro, and then assign that through Logitech's
drivers.
It's not like I can assign "unassigned" to it and have AutoCAD pick it up as
another button.
Matt
mstachoni@comcast.net
mstachoni@bhhtait.com
buttons/combos. Regardless of the manufacturer's driver.
--
R. Robert Bell
"Matt Stachoni"
news:5149093@discussion.autodesk.com...
On Thu, 20 Apr 2006 14:06:34 +0000, adtuser
>Hi Matt,
>I don't understand this complaint. You've brought it up many times before.
>Have
>you tried MBUTTONPAN=0? You get all of your menus back.
As I mentioned in my previous post:
>For me and many of my users it's no bargain and we actually have
>MBUTTONPAN=0.
So yeah, I have them back, but miss MBP. I finally resorted to creating a
macro
tied to F6 that swaps them back and forth, but it's still a kludge.
> I for one love the middle mouse button pan and would like to keep it.
I'm not requesting anyone taking it away. Far from it. I simply want the
other
three optional keys back and the freedom to apply MBP to any button or
kbd+mb
combination.
>Have you considered getting a swiss army type mouse with more than 3
>buttons?
Yep. Have one (Logitech MX1000). But the other buttons are just not very
comfortable to use for me, and I have to use Logitech's drivers to assign
them.
And even then I have to first assign a macro (except for MBP's press-drag
pan
action) to a keyboard macro, and then assign that through Logitech's
drivers.
It's not like I can assign "unassigned" to it and have AutoCAD pick it up as
another button.
Matt
mstachoni@comcast.net
mstachoni@bhhtait.com
Message 64 of 251
Not applicable
04-20-2006
11:03 AM
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Why not allow the convert of the old menu to proceed, in a temporary CUI
file? Then use the Transfer tab to move the desired stuff to the real cui
file.
--
R. Robert Bell
wrote in message news:5149038@discussion.autodesk.com...
After 4 months of messing around with the cui in 2006 (which I was forced to
buy by the deadline), I've still not moved 2006 into production drafting in
our office. At this point I don't see it happening in the future. For
customized menus we use slides, toolbars and digitizers with customized mnu
and mns files.
I've tried over and over to get the customized tablet area one in the mnu
file into 2006. I've tried using the cui interface after reading messages
here and watching the linked videos, all to no avail. The only way I've
gotten the area one of the tablet menu to work properly is to use menuload
to load my old acad.mnu from 2002. Unfortunately the 2002 mnu overwrites
the 2006 menu. I haven't figured out how to make a partial menu of just the
area one menu and have it work. Because the area one portion of the 2002
mnu file worked properly in 2006, I know there is a soultion to getting my
customized menu to work properly, I just don't know how and can't find out
from the documentation.
Here is a snipped version of my partial mnu file I'm trying to get to work:
***MENUGROUP=tabletareaone
//
// Begin AutoCAD Tablet Menus
//
// This is the TABLET1 menu. You may put your own
// macros and menu items here in these spaces.
// All of the "blank" line items actually contain a
// backslash so that no command is issued when you pick any
// of them from the tablet. Remove them if you want an Enter
// to happen when they are selected, or place your own
// macros in their place.
***TABLET1
**TABLET1STD
[A-1]^C^C-INSERT UVR
[A-2]^C^C-INSERT UVL
[A-3]^C^C-INSERT UVHORZU
[A-4]^C^C-INSERT UVHORIZD
[snip
**ENDTAB
If anyone has any suggestions on how to edit this partial menu so that it
works please let me know. It does load but does not work.
I started on release 2.6 and have never had this much trouble upgrading
Autocad. I found it very simple to cut and paste my custom menus into the
mnu or mns files. I have hit a dead end with 2006 and can't see paying
Autodesk for more of this in the future. I will stay with 2002 for now and
see what happens.
Lowell
file? Then use the Transfer tab to move the desired stuff to the real cui
file.
--
R. Robert Bell
After 4 months of messing around with the cui in 2006 (which I was forced to
buy by the deadline), I've still not moved 2006 into production drafting in
our office. At this point I don't see it happening in the future. For
customized menus we use slides, toolbars and digitizers with customized mnu
and mns files.
I've tried over and over to get the customized tablet area one in the mnu
file into 2006. I've tried using the cui interface after reading messages
here and watching the linked videos, all to no avail. The only way I've
gotten the area one of the tablet menu to work properly is to use menuload
to load my old acad.mnu from 2002. Unfortunately the 2002 mnu overwrites
the 2006 menu. I haven't figured out how to make a partial menu of just the
area one menu and have it work. Because the area one portion of the 2002
mnu file worked properly in 2006, I know there is a soultion to getting my
customized menu to work properly, I just don't know how and can't find out
from the documentation.
Here is a snipped version of my partial mnu file I'm trying to get to work:
***MENUGROUP=tabletareaone
//
// Begin AutoCAD Tablet Menus
//
// This is the TABLET1 menu. You may put your own
// macros and menu items here in these spaces.
// All of the "blank" line items actually contain a
// backslash so that no command is issued when you pick any
// of them from the tablet. Remove them if you want an Enter
// to happen when they are selected, or place your own
// macros in their place.
***TABLET1
**TABLET1STD
[A-1]^C^C-INSERT UVR
[A-2]^C^C-INSERT UVL
[A-3]^C^C-INSERT UVHORZU
[A-4]^C^C-INSERT UVHORIZD
[snip
**ENDTAB
If anyone has any suggestions on how to edit this partial menu so that it
works please let me know. It does load but does not work.
I started on release 2.6 and have never had this much trouble upgrading
Autocad. I found it very simple to cut and paste my custom menus into the
mnu or mns files. I have hit a dead end with 2006 and can't see paying
Autodesk for more of this in the future. I will stay with 2002 for now and
see what happens.
Lowell
Message 65 of 251
Not applicable
04-20-2006
11:07 AM
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Bud,
Things are harder, no question about it.
Its downright dangerous to show users the CUI.
On top of that, the CUI system took away some functionality, and made some things slow.
For instance, I want my middle button to pull up the osnap menu, and my thumb button to do the panning.
So I assign F11 to the osnap menu and my middle button to keystroke F11.
That way I can keep MButtonpan to 1, and set my thumb button to middle button.
Well, when you do that, the osnap menu does not "show" until you move the mouse, after clicking the wheel.
Its very annoying since we type the mnemonic of the osnap. You end up seeing an e on the command line and it screws up
the whole rythm.
So its back to mbuttonpan as 0. Then the osnap menu comes up without having to move the mouse.
The CUI just destroyed so many patterns that worked fine, and replaced with slow, confusing, energy intensive patterns
that its usefullness has all but collapsed for the average user.
Bud, what happened with the whole CUI effort? Just from the comments on the newsgroups, you could probably design a
better interface! I have no idea if you are a programmer, but I get the feeling Adesk did not consult even you on this
stuff...I do appreciate your asking our opinion, we are desperate to make this CUI system workable again.
Bud Schroeder [Autodesk Inc.]
|>Hi Herman,
|>
|>You can also put the toolbars in a Workspace and turn them back on that way.
|>For example you could turn off all the toolbars you don't want on, then save
|>that as a Workspace. Then anytime you want just those toolbars use that
|>workspace.
|>
|>Also do you have any ideas on how it could be simpler? If so we would
|>really like to hear that as well. One thing that we are looking at is are
|>things harder to do or just different because it's changed? Then we want
|>to make the right changes based on the feedback.
|>
|>Thanks again for your feedback.
|>
|>Bud Schroeder
|>AutoCAD Test Developement
|>Autodesk Inc.
|>
|> wrote in message news:5148306@discussion.autodesk.com...
|>Not quite. In previous versions there was a dialog box available to turn
|>toolbars on/off. AFAIK, this dialog was discontinued in 2006, though the
|>command line interface is still there.
|>
|>"Right click any toolbar" is not possible if no toolbar is visible.
James Maeding
Civil Engineer and Programmer
jmaeding - athunsaker - com
Things are harder, no question about it.
Its downright dangerous to show users the CUI.
On top of that, the CUI system took away some functionality, and made some things slow.
For instance, I want my middle button to pull up the osnap menu, and my thumb button to do the panning.
So I assign F11 to the osnap menu and my middle button to keystroke F11.
That way I can keep MButtonpan to 1, and set my thumb button to middle button.
Well, when you do that, the osnap menu does not "show" until you move the mouse, after clicking the wheel.
Its very annoying since we type the mnemonic of the osnap. You end up seeing an e on the command line and it screws up
the whole rythm.
So its back to mbuttonpan as 0. Then the osnap menu comes up without having to move the mouse.
The CUI just destroyed so many patterns that worked fine, and replaced with slow, confusing, energy intensive patterns
that its usefullness has all but collapsed for the average user.
Bud, what happened with the whole CUI effort? Just from the comments on the newsgroups, you could probably design a
better interface! I have no idea if you are a programmer, but I get the feeling Adesk did not consult even you on this
stuff...I do appreciate your asking our opinion, we are desperate to make this CUI system workable again.
Bud Schroeder [Autodesk Inc.]
|>Hi Herman,
|>
|>You can also put the toolbars in a Workspace and turn them back on that way.
|>For example you could turn off all the toolbars you don't want on, then save
|>that as a Workspace. Then anytime you want just those toolbars use that
|>workspace.
|>
|>Also do you have any ideas on how it could be simpler? If so we would
|>really like to hear that as well. One thing that we are looking at is are
|>things harder to do or just different because it's changed? Then we want
|>to make the right changes based on the feedback.
|>
|>Thanks again for your feedback.
|>
|>Bud Schroeder
|>AutoCAD Test Developement
|>Autodesk Inc.
|>
|>
|>Not quite. In previous versions there was a dialog box available to turn
|>toolbars on/off. AFAIK, this dialog was discontinued in 2006, though the
|>command line interface is still there.
|>
|>"Right click any toolbar" is not possible if no toolbar is visible.
James Maeding
Civil Engineer and Programmer
jmaeding - athunsaker - com
Message 66 of 251
Not applicable
04-20-2006
11:09 AM
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Well said, James.
While I still write & use my own customizations using Lisp & VBA I no longer
fool around with editing the menus. I've limited myself to creating just 2-4
letter commands with lisp to avoid modifying the menus in any way. I
determined this based on all of the comments in this group on the pitfalls
of using the CUI, as I have work to do and don't wish to spend the amount of
time it appears to require one to get proficient in yet another new format
for customization.
"James Maeding" wrote in message
news:5149166@discussion.autodesk.com...
Doug,
All of us could go on an on about specific improvements, but the real
problem is Adesk never looked at how real users
use menus. I had heard menus were going to xml in 2006, which did not
bother me, so I did not look at it much during
beta testing. Adesk should have been smart enough to push the issue, and
warn us.
The fact is the CUI feature came off as a bad surprise party. I would be
scared if I was the person in charge of it at
Adesk, what an incredibly embarrassing situation.
While I still write & use my own customizations using Lisp & VBA I no longer
fool around with editing the menus. I've limited myself to creating just 2-4
letter commands with lisp to avoid modifying the menus in any way. I
determined this based on all of the comments in this group on the pitfalls
of using the CUI, as I have work to do and don't wish to spend the amount of
time it appears to require one to get proficient in yet another new format
for customization.
"James Maeding"
news:5149166@discussion.autodesk.com...
Doug,
All of us could go on an on about specific improvements, but the real
problem is Adesk never looked at how real users
use menus. I had heard menus were going to xml in 2006, which did not
bother me, so I did not look at it much during
beta testing. Adesk should have been smart enough to push the issue, and
warn us.
The fact is the CUI feature came off as a bad surprise party. I would be
scared if I was the person in charge of it at
Adesk, what an incredibly embarrassing situation.
Message 67 of 251
Not applicable
04-20-2006
11:25 AM
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no, we want workspaces to be external to everything, as standalone text files.
Like how menu palettes were in LDT.
The last thing we need is more things tied together, it leads to the mess we are in, where we care about what menu is
the main menu. Its crazy.
What we need is a tool that saves and restores the visual elemets of the interface, but does not have the settings of a
complete profile.
We need to be able to load that "workspace" into a blank new acad profile, and have it load the things needed and make
things look right.
Storing it inside another menu is just crazy.
We also want the ability to restore just a portion of a workspace, like pulldowns like the old menu pallettes did...
Rick Moore
|>Allow workspaces to be saved in partial menus
James Maeding
Civil Engineer and Programmer
jmaeding - athunsaker - com
Like how menu palettes were in LDT.
The last thing we need is more things tied together, it leads to the mess we are in, where we care about what menu is
the main menu. Its crazy.
What we need is a tool that saves and restores the visual elemets of the interface, but does not have the settings of a
complete profile.
We need to be able to load that "workspace" into a blank new acad profile, and have it load the things needed and make
things look right.
Storing it inside another menu is just crazy.
We also want the ability to restore just a portion of a workspace, like pulldowns like the old menu pallettes did...
Rick Moore
|>Allow workspaces to be saved in partial menus
James Maeding
Civil Engineer and Programmer
jmaeding - athunsaker - com
Message 68 of 251
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04-20-2006
11:32 AM
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Jeremiah,
You hit on a super important point.
The mnr file of the CUI system is super sensitive, it is the main thing that kills acad on startup here.
If acad crashes and any mnr gets messed up, look out.
The point I am making is delete all the mnr files should you find your acad fatal errors on open...
Jeremiah Farmer <>
|>ack, this reminded me of another of my CUI pet peeves:
|>If this CUI system is supposedly standalone, yadda yadda, why is it that the MNR gets recompiled, hosing the 2004 users loading the MNU toolbars in the same path?!
|>After all of this, it still relies on an MNR? And I would assume the number 1 request for any new release is that it would be compatible with previous versions during the transition period. But once again, an Autodesk upgrade makes loading the same toolbar menu from multiple versions impossible.
|>
|>--J
James Maeding
Civil Engineer and Programmer
jmaeding - athunsaker - com
You hit on a super important point.
The mnr file of the CUI system is super sensitive, it is the main thing that kills acad on startup here.
If acad crashes and any mnr gets messed up, look out.
The point I am making is delete all the mnr files should you find your acad fatal errors on open...
Jeremiah Farmer <>
|>ack, this reminded me of another of my CUI pet peeves:
|>If this CUI system is supposedly standalone, yadda yadda, why is it that the MNR gets recompiled, hosing the 2004 users loading the MNU toolbars in the same path?!
|>After all of this, it still relies on an MNR? And I would assume the number 1 request for any new release is that it would be compatible with previous versions during the transition period. But once again, an Autodesk upgrade makes loading the same toolbar menu from multiple versions impossible.
|>
|>--J
James Maeding
Civil Engineer and Programmer
jmaeding - athunsaker - com
Message 69 of 251
Not applicable
04-20-2006
11:46 AM
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Hi, Robert. I've got all of my custom interface elements in custom.cui,
which is partial to acad.cui. My workspaces have to reside in acad.cui. If
you wanted to copy this to another machine how do you get the workspaces to
the other machine? Copy the acad.cui or use the transfer tab - I was hoping
it would be easier but sounds like this isn't possible. BTW, I've tried
your method of using the custom.cui as the main but got JIT errors everytime
I tried to adjust the CUI.
"R. Robert Bell" wrote in message
news:5149173@discussion.autodesk.com...
"R. Robert Bell" wrote in message
news:5149129@discussion.autodesk.com...
Rick,
I've pondered over this request of yours, and feel you might be missing
something.
Workspaces control the visibility of interface elements *within the
constraints of the loaded cui files*. How would a workspace within a partial
cui file even be created that would "know" of the elements normally
contained by its "master" cui file?
Since a workspace in a partial cui could not
I didn't finish my thought before the battery died.
... know about the elements in its master cui, how would selecting its
workspace be any improvement? Imagine the howls when the standard menus
disappear because someone loaded a partial's workspace.
which is partial to acad.cui. My workspaces have to reside in acad.cui. If
you wanted to copy this to another machine how do you get the workspaces to
the other machine? Copy the acad.cui or use the transfer tab - I was hoping
it would be easier but sounds like this isn't possible. BTW, I've tried
your method of using the custom.cui as the main but got JIT errors everytime
I tried to adjust the CUI.
"R. Robert Bell"
news:5149173@discussion.autodesk.com...
"R. Robert Bell"
news:5149129@discussion.autodesk.com...
Rick,
I've pondered over this request of yours, and feel you might be missing
something.
Workspaces control the visibility of interface elements *within the
constraints of the loaded cui files*. How would a workspace within a partial
cui file even be created that would "know" of the elements normally
contained by its "master" cui file?
Since a workspace in a partial cui could not
... know about the elements in its master cui, how would selecting its
workspace be any improvement? Imagine the howls when the standard menus
disappear because someone loaded a partial's workspace.
Message 70 of 251
Not applicable
04-20-2006
12:48 PM
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"Bud Schroeder [Autodesk Inc.]" wrote
>> Word does not allow me to customize nearly as much
>> as I can in AutoCAD using the CUI Editor.
For at least ten years, I have been able to right click
on a toolbar in an Office app; choose customize; select
a combo box on a toolbar; and resize it.
Please stop blowing smoke up our butts.
--
http://www.caddzone.com
AcadXTabs: MDI Document Tabs for AutoCAD 2004/2005/2006/2007
http://www.acadxtabs.com
>> Word does not allow me to customize nearly as much
>> as I can in AutoCAD using the CUI Editor.
For at least ten years, I have been able to right click
on a toolbar in an Office app; choose customize; select
a combo box on a toolbar; and resize it.
Please stop blowing smoke up our butts.
--
http://www.caddzone.com
AcadXTabs: MDI Document Tabs for AutoCAD 2004/2005/2006/2007
http://www.acadxtabs.com
Message 71 of 251
Not applicable
04-20-2006
02:06 PM
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Hi Bud,
I don't think 8 seconds is acceptable for opening any dialog box in a mass
market product such as AutoCAD. You should be aiming at under a second.
I'm on a seriously fast computer where the first opening took about 4
seconds and the second about 2 and those delays are annoying
Suggestions:
Provide in the normal interface that key/mouse combinations can:
Add a pop menu
Copy a pop menu inclusive of assigning a name to the copy
Delete a pop menu
Hide/show a pop menu
Change the column order of the pop menus by dragging a menu.
Convert a pop menu to a toolbar
Add a menu item (open a small dialog box to enter the command details)
Copy a menu item
Delete a menu item
Change the row order of commands by dragging the command.
Drag a menu item to a toolbar and visa versa
Copy a menu item
Change the location of a toolbar icon by dragging it to any visible toolbar
Add all of the above to the Undo command.
This would remove the need to have a CUI editor and as each of the commands
is handled as a single events the response times could have no observable
delay.
Assuming the CUI is to be kept then:
Clearly part of the slow speed of opening the CUI dialog box is populating a
large number of list boxes - many of which may not be needed is a given
session. Why not look at leaving these unpopulated till you get a Getfocus
event on the list box
--
Laurie Comerford
CADApps
www.cadapps.com.au
"Bud Schroeder [Autodesk Inc.]" wrote in message
news:5148242@discussion.autodesk.com...
Hi Laurie,
What version of AutoCAD are you running? 2006 or 2007? I did some testing
using my IBM T42 Laptop and the CUI opens up in under 8 seconds the first
time and around a second each time after. We made a lot of speed changes
specifically for AutoCAD 2007 so you should see a lot more speed that way.
Also besides speed do you have any suggestions for improving the Editor?
Thanks again for the feedback and we look forward to hearing back from you
about the editor.
Bud Schroeder
AutoCAD Test Development
Autodesk Inc.
"Laurie Comerford" wrote in message
news:5146492@discussion.autodesk.com...
Hi Mark,
It will never be acceptable until you can make it start instantly.
The 10 second average delay to respond to the command to open the dalog box
is a reflection of incompetant programming.
With my slightly modified MNU editing system I can make a change to the MNU
file and reload the modified menu in less time than it takes to open the CUI
editor.
Laurie Comerford
CADApps
www.cadapps.com.au
"mark" wrote in message
news:5146421@discussion.autodesk.com...
give me an option without goowee (GUI)
just plain old text editor option, so i can fine tune
and be in full control
thanks
mark
wrote in message news:5146408@discussion.autodesk.com...
Hello,
We are looking at ways to improve and enhance the CUI Editor in AutoCAD. As
a customer, what improvements would you like to see with CUI?
Thanks in advance for your input!
Doug Cochran
Autodesk, Inc.
I don't think 8 seconds is acceptable for opening any dialog box in a mass
market product such as AutoCAD. You should be aiming at under a second.
I'm on a seriously fast computer where the first opening took about 4
seconds and the second about 2 and those delays are annoying
Suggestions:
Provide in the normal interface that key/mouse combinations can:
Add a pop menu
Copy a pop menu inclusive of assigning a name to the copy
Delete a pop menu
Hide/show a pop menu
Change the column order of the pop menus by dragging a menu.
Convert a pop menu to a toolbar
Add a menu item (open a small dialog box to enter the command details)
Copy a menu item
Delete a menu item
Change the row order of commands by dragging the command.
Drag a menu item to a toolbar and visa versa
Copy a menu item
Change the location of a toolbar icon by dragging it to any visible toolbar
Add all of the above to the Undo command.
This would remove the need to have a CUI editor and as each of the commands
is handled as a single events the response times could have no observable
delay.
Assuming the CUI is to be kept then:
Clearly part of the slow speed of opening the CUI dialog box is populating a
large number of list boxes - many of which may not be needed is a given
session. Why not look at leaving these unpopulated till you get a Getfocus
event on the list box
--
Laurie Comerford
CADApps
www.cadapps.com.au
"Bud Schroeder [Autodesk Inc.]"
news:5148242@discussion.autodesk.com...
Hi Laurie,
What version of AutoCAD are you running? 2006 or 2007? I did some testing
using my IBM T42 Laptop and the CUI opens up in under 8 seconds the first
time and around a second each time after. We made a lot of speed changes
specifically for AutoCAD 2007 so you should see a lot more speed that way.
Also besides speed do you have any suggestions for improving the Editor?
Thanks again for the feedback and we look forward to hearing back from you
about the editor.
Bud Schroeder
AutoCAD Test Development
Autodesk Inc.
"Laurie Comerford"
news:5146492@discussion.autodesk.com...
Hi Mark,
It will never be acceptable until you can make it start instantly.
The 10 second average delay to respond to the command to open the dalog box
is a reflection of incompetant programming.
With my slightly modified MNU editing system I can make a change to the MNU
file and reload the modified menu in less time than it takes to open the CUI
editor.
Laurie Comerford
CADApps
www.cadapps.com.au
"mark" wrote in message
news:5146421@discussion.autodesk.com...
give me an option without goowee (GUI)
just plain old text editor option, so i can fine tune
and be in full control
thanks
mark
Hello,
We are looking at ways to improve and enhance the CUI Editor in AutoCAD. As
a customer, what improvements would you like to see with CUI?
Thanks in advance for your input!
Doug Cochran
Autodesk, Inc.
Message 72 of 251
Not applicable
04-20-2006
02:20 PM
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Laurie,
What a great idea, convert pop menu to toolbar!
At first I thought, "sure, what about nested items in pulldowns, like the arc items in the Draw pulldown", but then I
remembered toolbar flyout buttons.
Only problem is assigning bitmaps, but maybe acad could fill in automatically with colors, and we change later.
Anyway, cool idea.
I like your list below, it addresses many common tasks.
Laurie Comerford
|>Hi Bud,
|>
|>I don't think 8 seconds is acceptable for opening any dialog box in a mass
|>market product such as AutoCAD. You should be aiming at under a second.
|>
|>I'm on a seriously fast computer where the first opening took about 4
|>seconds and the second about 2 and those delays are annoying
|>
|>Suggestions:
|>
|>Provide in the normal interface that key/mouse combinations can:
|>
|>Add a pop menu
|>Copy a pop menu inclusive of assigning a name to the copy
|>Delete a pop menu
|>Hide/show a pop menu
|>Change the column order of the pop menus by dragging a menu.
|>Convert a pop menu to a toolbar
|>
|>Add a menu item (open a small dialog box to enter the command details)
|>Copy a menu item
|>Delete a menu item
|>Change the row order of commands by dragging the command.
|>Drag a menu item to a toolbar and visa versa
|>Copy a menu item
|>Change the location of a toolbar icon by dragging it to any visible toolbar
|>
|>Add all of the above to the Undo command.
|>
|>This would remove the need to have a CUI editor and as each of the commands
|>is handled as a single events the response times could have no observable
|>delay.
|>
|>Assuming the CUI is to be kept then:
|>Clearly part of the slow speed of opening the CUI dialog box is populating a
|>large number of list boxes - many of which may not be needed is a given
|>session. Why not look at leaving these unpopulated till you get a Getfocus
|>event on the list box
James Maeding
Civil Engineer and Programmer
jmaeding - athunsaker - com
What a great idea, convert pop menu to toolbar!
At first I thought, "sure, what about nested items in pulldowns, like the arc items in the Draw pulldown", but then I
remembered toolbar flyout buttons.
Only problem is assigning bitmaps, but maybe acad could fill in automatically with colors, and we change later.
Anyway, cool idea.
I like your list below, it addresses many common tasks.
Laurie Comerford
|>Hi Bud,
|>
|>I don't think 8 seconds is acceptable for opening any dialog box in a mass
|>market product such as AutoCAD. You should be aiming at under a second.
|>
|>I'm on a seriously fast computer where the first opening took about 4
|>seconds and the second about 2 and those delays are annoying
|>
|>Suggestions:
|>
|>Provide in the normal interface that key/mouse combinations can:
|>
|>Add a pop menu
|>Copy a pop menu inclusive of assigning a name to the copy
|>Delete a pop menu
|>Hide/show a pop menu
|>Change the column order of the pop menus by dragging a menu.
|>Convert a pop menu to a toolbar
|>
|>Add a menu item (open a small dialog box to enter the command details)
|>Copy a menu item
|>Delete a menu item
|>Change the row order of commands by dragging the command.
|>Drag a menu item to a toolbar and visa versa
|>Copy a menu item
|>Change the location of a toolbar icon by dragging it to any visible toolbar
|>
|>Add all of the above to the Undo command.
|>
|>This would remove the need to have a CUI editor and as each of the commands
|>is handled as a single events the response times could have no observable
|>delay.
|>
|>Assuming the CUI is to be kept then:
|>Clearly part of the slow speed of opening the CUI dialog box is populating a
|>large number of list boxes - many of which may not be needed is a given
|>session. Why not look at leaving these unpopulated till you get a Getfocus
|>event on the list box
James Maeding
Civil Engineer and Programmer
jmaeding - athunsaker - com
Message 73 of 251
Not applicable
04-20-2006
02:30 PM
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Rick, did you copy the acad.cui (or acmap.cui) to custom.cui before setting custom.cui as the main menu?
It simply does not work to make the blank custom.cui the main menu. Mouse buttons malfunction especially with LDT.
It all boils down to bugs with the CUI system. To deal with them, make the main cui contain mouse buttons,
accellerators, and other stuff. Its ok to put pop menus and toolbars in partials, but the other items do not work
right.
If you start each user like I said, the workspaces they make go right in the main menu, which is custom.cui.
The downside is now the acad menu and user custom menu are one and the same.
At least it works reliably, as opposed to trying to let them customize a partial menu from the CUI.
If the CUI truly worked how Adesk told me when I called their subscription help desk, everything would be "found
according to the order the menus appear in the CUI editor", but it aint that way.
So we do what we hate - let the user hack away at the stuff that is normally part of the acad default menu.
Rick Moore
|>Hi, Robert. I've got all of my custom interface elements in custom.cui,
|>which is partial to acad.cui. My workspaces have to reside in acad.cui. If
|>you wanted to copy this to another machine how do you get the workspaces to
|>the other machine? Copy the acad.cui or use the transfer tab - I was hoping
|>it would be easier but sounds like this isn't possible. BTW, I've tried
|>your method of using the custom.cui as the main but got JIT errors everytime
|>I tried to adjust the CUI.
|>
|>"R. Robert Bell" wrote in message
|>news:5149173@discussion.autodesk.com...
|>"R. Robert Bell" wrote in message
|>news:5149129@discussion.autodesk.com...
|>Rick,
|>
|>I've pondered over this request of yours, and feel you might be missing
|>something.
|>
|>Workspaces control the visibility of interface elements *within the
|>constraints of the loaded cui files*. How would a workspace within a partial
|>cui file even be created that would "know" of the elements normally
|>contained by its "master" cui file?
|>
|>Since a workspace in a partial cui could not
|>
|> I didn't finish my thought before the battery died.
|>
|>... know about the elements in its master cui, how would selecting its
|>workspace be any improvement? Imagine the howls when the standard menus
|>disappear because someone loaded a partial's workspace.
James Maeding
Civil Engineer and Programmer
jmaeding - athunsaker - com
It simply does not work to make the blank custom.cui the main menu. Mouse buttons malfunction especially with LDT.
It all boils down to bugs with the CUI system. To deal with them, make the main cui contain mouse buttons,
accellerators, and other stuff. Its ok to put pop menus and toolbars in partials, but the other items do not work
right.
If you start each user like I said, the workspaces they make go right in the main menu, which is custom.cui.
The downside is now the acad menu and user custom menu are one and the same.
At least it works reliably, as opposed to trying to let them customize a partial menu from the CUI.
If the CUI truly worked how Adesk told me when I called their subscription help desk, everything would be "found
according to the order the menus appear in the CUI editor", but it aint that way.
So we do what we hate - let the user hack away at the stuff that is normally part of the acad default menu.
Rick Moore
|>Hi, Robert. I've got all of my custom interface elements in custom.cui,
|>which is partial to acad.cui. My workspaces have to reside in acad.cui. If
|>you wanted to copy this to another machine how do you get the workspaces to
|>the other machine? Copy the acad.cui or use the transfer tab - I was hoping
|>it would be easier but sounds like this isn't possible. BTW, I've tried
|>your method of using the custom.cui as the main but got JIT errors everytime
|>I tried to adjust the CUI.
|>
|>"R. Robert Bell"
|>news:5149173@discussion.autodesk.com...
|>"R. Robert Bell"
|>news:5149129@discussion.autodesk.com...
|>Rick,
|>
|>I've pondered over this request of yours, and feel you might be missing
|>something.
|>
|>Workspaces control the visibility of interface elements *within the
|>constraints of the loaded cui files*. How would a workspace within a partial
|>cui file even be created that would "know" of the elements normally
|>contained by its "master" cui file?
|>
|>Since a workspace in a partial cui could not
|>
|>
|>
|>... know about the elements in its master cui, how would selecting its
|>workspace be any improvement? Imagine the howls when the standard menus
|>disappear because someone loaded a partial's workspace.
James Maeding
Civil Engineer and Programmer
jmaeding - athunsaker - com
Message 74 of 251
Not applicable
04-20-2006
02:36 PM
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Thank you Robert, that worked. It took me a little while to figure out to use cui import and transfer line by line. Not intuitive at all. Now I just have to work on the tool boxes and slides.
I don't see any advantage to the cui. If Autodesk wanted a simple graphic interface to customize menus, they should have set it up so you just right clicked a toolbox or tool bar to create a new one or modify an existing one. Oh, wait, that's how it used to be. For customizing the digitizer menu, they could have put it into a text file so it could be modified using notepad. Oh, wait, that's how it used to be. If a graphical interface was desired for the digitizer, a picture of the digitizer overlay could be pulled up and each square could be right clicked so that the icon and/or the command/macro could be edited.
Thanks again Robert, I feel like I've taken a huge step forward in spite of the cui.
Lowell McCormick
I don't see any advantage to the cui. If Autodesk wanted a simple graphic interface to customize menus, they should have set it up so you just right clicked a toolbox or tool bar to create a new one or modify an existing one. Oh, wait, that's how it used to be. For customizing the digitizer menu, they could have put it into a text file so it could be modified using notepad. Oh, wait, that's how it used to be. If a graphical interface was desired for the digitizer, a picture of the digitizer overlay could be pulled up and each square could be right clicked so that the icon and/or the command/macro could be edited.
Thanks again Robert, I feel like I've taken a huge step forward in spite of the cui.
Lowell McCormick
Message 75 of 251
Not applicable
04-20-2006
02:36 PM
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Hi Bud,
A further thought arising from Matty's post.
At the monent we handle bitmaps by putting them into a DLL file.
It would be nice to have a DLL editor where you could drag the bitmap files
into the DLL file. Compare the multi-mouse click process we currently use
in "Resource Hacker"
--
Laurie Comerford
CADApps
www.cadapps.com.au
"Bud Schroeder [Autodesk Inc.]" wrote in message
news:5148846@discussion.autodesk.com...
Hi Matt,
Thanks for the feedback. Some of these things where implamented in 2007
but you still have some great suggestions. I posted some of the updates we
did in 2007 below next to your comments.
Thanks again for the feedback this is very helpful.
Bud Schroeder
AutoCAD Test Development
Autodesk Inc.
wrote in message news:5148446@discussion.autodesk.com...
Thanks for the opportunity, Doug.
(I use Autocad 2006, so disregard any of these suggestions that have already
been added to 2007.)
A.
I think the drag'n'drop from the 'Command List' to the 'Customisations in
all CUI files' section needs to be fixed. It automatically scrolls at
(fairly) high speed as soon as you enter the scroll area. The only way
around it is to do an anti-clockwise semi-circle maneuver with the mouse.
BUD: This should be better in 2007. We have made some changes here.
B.
I don't know if this is already possible, but how about relative paths for
bitmap locations?
BUD: For 2007 we have a default ICON path and you can change it to the path
that you want to use.
C.
Workspace import and export (or drag'n'drop)?
BUD: You can do that today in the Transfer TAB. Just open the menu that
has your Workspace on the left side and the menu that you want to transfer
to on the right. Grab the Workspace and drag it.
D.
Copy'n'Paste of whole or partial toolbars, pull-downs etc. (mentioned by
other replies)
BUD: Something we are looking at for future versions.
E.
Vaguely related: More than one enterprise menu. An enterprise path? Used
only for items called from the enterprise cui.
BUD: You can kind of do this now, but It depends on why you want multiple
Enterprise CUI files. For example you can have an Enterprise CUI file with
partial CUI files loaded in that same file. They are all treated as an
Enterprise CUI file. For different CUI files, you could use a profile and
change the Main and CUI paths to different CUI files.
F.
How about utilising right-clicks a little more?
BUD: What would you like to see used more in the Right Click?
G.
Multiple copy of strings of text, like Microsoft Office.
H.
A filter for the 'Command List'. As in the layer dialog.
BUD: You can filter and search the command list today? Are you looking for
more granularity in how you filter?
I.
Search and replace of text. (Checkboxes of which fields to search.)
J.
How about a more simple way of ordering the pull-down menus?
BUD: Can you tell us more about what you would consider more simple? Right
now you just click on the Workspace in CUI and expand the Menu. Then just
drag them where you want them to show up. Are you looking for a different
way? Thanks.
K.
Once again, vaguely related: How about fixing the toolbar placement & lock
facility? I still have toolbars that don't stay where I want them to.
BUD: Sorry that one is not in the CUI except for the default location of the
toolbars. And that actually is the same as it was in the old MNU format.
But I will pass it on to the team that implamented the locking. Can you
give me some examples of the issues your seeing so that I can share that
with them?
L.
How about being a bit more HELPful? Context sensitive help would be great,
especially with stuff like the Element ID.
BUD: We did a lot of work on Help in 2007 including adding videos to show
how the dialog flows. I would be curious to see what you think of the help
in 2007 and if it's more helpful.
M.
How about having the images in the 'Button Image' area in groupings of where
they come from. dll, bmp file, etc
How about which menu (or partial) they are related to?
BUD: Would it be just the groupings or the entire image/icons section?
Most of this comes from the old MNU system. Also if you add a custom icon
you do see the path in the propertie. But it sounds like you want to see
more here.
As for going back to mns files?
Yes mns files were easier to edit, but the CUI system is OK.
Autodesk have been moving towards complete Windows integration for years,
obvious to anybody who wanted to see the patterns.
The mns system was (obviously) incapable of being modified to suit the
advanced requirements.
I just hope Autodesk don't add those (Microsoft Office style) silly
shrinking pull-down menus!! ;-)))
Anyway, cheers!
Matt
A further thought arising from Matty's post.
At the monent we handle bitmaps by putting them into a DLL file.
It would be nice to have a DLL editor where you could drag the bitmap files
into the DLL file. Compare the multi-mouse click process we currently use
in "Resource Hacker"
--
Laurie Comerford
CADApps
www.cadapps.com.au
"Bud Schroeder [Autodesk Inc.]"
news:5148846@discussion.autodesk.com...
Hi Matt,
Thanks for the feedback. Some of these things where implamented in 2007
but you still have some great suggestions. I posted some of the updates we
did in 2007 below next to your comments.
Thanks again for the feedback this is very helpful.
Bud Schroeder
AutoCAD Test Development
Autodesk Inc.
Thanks for the opportunity, Doug.
(I use Autocad 2006, so disregard any of these suggestions that have already
been added to 2007.)
A.
I think the drag'n'drop from the 'Command List' to the 'Customisations in
all CUI files' section needs to be fixed. It automatically scrolls at
(fairly) high speed as soon as you enter the scroll area. The only way
around it is to do an anti-clockwise semi-circle maneuver with the mouse.
BUD: This should be better in 2007. We have made some changes here.
B.
I don't know if this is already possible, but how about relative paths for
bitmap locations?
BUD: For 2007 we have a default ICON path and you can change it to the path
that you want to use.
C.
Workspace import and export (or drag'n'drop)?
BUD: You can do that today in the Transfer TAB. Just open the menu that
has your Workspace on the left side and the menu that you want to transfer
to on the right. Grab the Workspace and drag it.
D.
Copy'n'Paste of whole or partial toolbars, pull-downs etc. (mentioned by
other replies)
BUD: Something we are looking at for future versions.
E.
Vaguely related: More than one enterprise menu. An enterprise path? Used
only for items called from the enterprise cui.
BUD: You can kind of do this now, but It depends on why you want multiple
Enterprise CUI files. For example you can have an Enterprise CUI file with
partial CUI files loaded in that same file. They are all treated as an
Enterprise CUI file. For different CUI files, you could use a profile and
change the Main and CUI paths to different CUI files.
F.
How about utilising right-clicks a little more?
BUD: What would you like to see used more in the Right Click?
G.
Multiple copy of strings of text, like Microsoft Office.
H.
A filter for the 'Command List'. As in the layer dialog.
BUD: You can filter and search the command list today? Are you looking for
more granularity in how you filter?
I.
Search and replace of text. (Checkboxes of which fields to search.)
J.
How about a more simple way of ordering the pull-down menus?
BUD: Can you tell us more about what you would consider more simple? Right
now you just click on the Workspace in CUI and expand the Menu. Then just
drag them where you want them to show up. Are you looking for a different
way? Thanks.
K.
Once again, vaguely related: How about fixing the toolbar placement & lock
facility? I still have toolbars that don't stay where I want them to.
BUD: Sorry that one is not in the CUI except for the default location of the
toolbars. And that actually is the same as it was in the old MNU format.
But I will pass it on to the team that implamented the locking. Can you
give me some examples of the issues your seeing so that I can share that
with them?
L.
How about being a bit more HELPful? Context sensitive help would be great,
especially with stuff like the Element ID.
BUD: We did a lot of work on Help in 2007 including adding videos to show
how the dialog flows. I would be curious to see what you think of the help
in 2007 and if it's more helpful.
M.
How about having the images in the 'Button Image' area in groupings of where
they come from. dll, bmp file, etc
How about which menu (or partial) they are related to?
BUD: Would it be just the groupings or the entire image/icons section?
Most of this comes from the old MNU system. Also if you add a custom icon
you do see the path in the propertie. But it sounds like you want to see
more here.
As for going back to mns files?
Yes mns files were easier to edit, but the CUI system is OK.
Autodesk have been moving towards complete Windows integration for years,
obvious to anybody who wanted to see the patterns.
The mns system was (obviously) incapable of being modified to suit the
advanced requirements.
I just hope Autodesk don't add those (Microsoft Office style) silly
shrinking pull-down menus!! ;-)))
Anyway, cheers!
Matt
Message 76 of 251
Not applicable
04-20-2006
02:44 PM
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Bud,
I want to make one more comment before I leave this topic alone (for now).
I'm sure that at every upgrade, many of us here have had to deal with the
old curmudgeon who doesn't like change. **None of the people who are
commenting in this thread are that type of user** Take a look at the folks
who have posted, and it's a who's-who of AutoCAD users (Tony, R. Robert,
Laurie, James, etc). I do realize that there are one or two people over on
Autodesk.AutoCAD.2006 who will always jump in a CUI thread to praise the
interface, but based on the responses in this thread (and more importantly,
who responded) it's clear that many things went horribly wrong with this
feature. If anyone within Autodesk is suggesting that people don't like the
CUI interface merely because it's different, please put that issue to rest.
People don't like it because it doesn't appear to have been very well
thought out.
--
Ralph Sanchez
http://www.texupport.net
--
"Bud Schroeder [Autodesk Inc.]" wrote in message
news:5148872@discussion.autodesk.com...
One thing that we are looking at is are things harder to do or just
different because it's changed?
I want to make one more comment before I leave this topic alone (for now).
I'm sure that at every upgrade, many of us here have had to deal with the
old curmudgeon who doesn't like change. **None of the people who are
commenting in this thread are that type of user** Take a look at the folks
who have posted, and it's a who's-who of AutoCAD users (Tony, R. Robert,
Laurie, James, etc). I do realize that there are one or two people over on
Autodesk.AutoCAD.2006 who will always jump in a CUI thread to praise the
interface, but based on the responses in this thread (and more importantly,
who responded) it's clear that many things went horribly wrong with this
feature. If anyone within Autodesk is suggesting that people don't like the
CUI interface merely because it's different, please put that issue to rest.
People don't like it because it doesn't appear to have been very well
thought out.
--
Ralph Sanchez
http://www.texupport.net
--
"Bud Schroeder [Autodesk Inc.]"
news:5148872@discussion.autodesk.com...
One thing that we are looking at is are things harder to do or just
different because it's changed?
Message 77 of 251
Not applicable
04-20-2006
02:50 PM
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That sounds great.
"Matt Stachoni" wrote in message
news:5149093@discussion.autodesk.com...
On Thu, 20 Apr 2006 14:06:34 +0000, adtuser wrote:
I'm not requesting anyone taking it away. Far from it. I simply want the other
three optional keys back and the freedom to apply MBP to any button or kbd+mb
combination.
"Matt Stachoni"
news:5149093@discussion.autodesk.com...
On Thu, 20 Apr 2006 14:06:34 +0000, adtuser
I'm not requesting anyone taking it away. Far from it. I simply want the other
three optional keys back and the freedom to apply MBP to any button or kbd+mb
combination.
Message 78 of 251
Not applicable
04-20-2006
02:51 PM
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It wasn't the blank one provided, I used the transfer tabs to create a new
custom.cui from my previously customized acad.cui. I was trying to not use
the acad.cui for custom stuff, including workspace storage - that's why I
made the custom.cui the main. Maybe I did something wrong but I tried this
on two different machines and both had the same JIT errors when clicking on
toolbar elements. Switching acad.cui back to main and custom.cui to partial
fixed this problem. Someone else in the 2007 forum had the same problem. My
partial has Keyboard shortcuts and Double click actions and it works fine.
"James Maeding" wrote in message
news:5149564@discussion.autodesk.com...
Rick, did you copy the acad.cui (or acmap.cui) to custom.cui before setting
custom.cui as the main menu?
It simply does not work to make the blank custom.cui the main menu. Mouse
buttons malfunction especially with LDT.
It all boils down to bugs with the CUI system. To deal with them, make the
main cui contain mouse buttons,
accellerators, and other stuff. Its ok to put pop menus and toolbars in
partials, but the other items do not work
right.
If you start each user like I said, the workspaces they make go right in the
main menu, which is custom.cui.
The downside is now the acad menu and user custom menu are one and the same.
At least it works reliably, as opposed to trying to let them customize a
partial menu from the CUI.
If the CUI truly worked how Adesk told me when I called their subscription
help desk, everything would be "found
according to the order the menus appear in the CUI editor", but it aint that
way.
So we do what we hate - let the user hack away at the stuff that is normally
part of the acad default menu.
Rick Moore
|>Hi, Robert. I've got all of my custom interface elements in custom.cui,
|>which is partial to acad.cui. My workspaces have to reside in acad.cui. If
|>you wanted to copy this to another machine how do you get the workspaces
to
|>the other machine? Copy the acad.cui or use the transfer tab - I was
hoping
|>it would be easier but sounds like this isn't possible. BTW, I've tried
|>your method of using the custom.cui as the main but got JIT errors
everytime
|>I tried to adjust the CUI.
|>
|>"R. Robert Bell" wrote in message
|>news:5149173@discussion.autodesk.com...
|>"R. Robert Bell" wrote in message
|>news:5149129@discussion.autodesk.com...
|>Rick,
|>
|>I've pondered over this request of yours, and feel you might be missing
|>something.
|>
|>Workspaces control the visibility of interface elements *within the
|>constraints of the loaded cui files*. How would a workspace within a
partial
|>cui file even be created that would "know" of the elements normally
|>contained by its "master" cui file?
|>
|>Since a workspace in a partial cui could not
|>
|> I didn't finish my thought before the battery died.
|>
|>... know about the elements in its master cui, how would selecting its
|>workspace be any improvement? Imagine the howls when the standard menus
|>disappear because someone loaded a partial's workspace.
James Maeding
Civil Engineer and Programmer
jmaeding - athunsaker - com
custom.cui from my previously customized acad.cui. I was trying to not use
the acad.cui for custom stuff, including workspace storage - that's why I
made the custom.cui the main. Maybe I did something wrong but I tried this
on two different machines and both had the same JIT errors when clicking on
toolbar elements. Switching acad.cui back to main and custom.cui to partial
fixed this problem. Someone else in the 2007 forum had the same problem. My
partial has Keyboard shortcuts and Double click actions and it works fine.
"James Maeding"
news:5149564@discussion.autodesk.com...
Rick, did you copy the acad.cui (or acmap.cui) to custom.cui before setting
custom.cui as the main menu?
It simply does not work to make the blank custom.cui the main menu. Mouse
buttons malfunction especially with LDT.
It all boils down to bugs with the CUI system. To deal with them, make the
main cui contain mouse buttons,
accellerators, and other stuff. Its ok to put pop menus and toolbars in
partials, but the other items do not work
right.
If you start each user like I said, the workspaces they make go right in the
main menu, which is custom.cui.
The downside is now the acad menu and user custom menu are one and the same.
At least it works reliably, as opposed to trying to let them customize a
partial menu from the CUI.
If the CUI truly worked how Adesk told me when I called their subscription
help desk, everything would be "found
according to the order the menus appear in the CUI editor", but it aint that
way.
So we do what we hate - let the user hack away at the stuff that is normally
part of the acad default menu.
Rick Moore
|>Hi, Robert. I've got all of my custom interface elements in custom.cui,
|>which is partial to acad.cui. My workspaces have to reside in acad.cui. If
|>you wanted to copy this to another machine how do you get the workspaces
to
|>the other machine? Copy the acad.cui or use the transfer tab - I was
hoping
|>it would be easier but sounds like this isn't possible. BTW, I've tried
|>your method of using the custom.cui as the main but got JIT errors
everytime
|>I tried to adjust the CUI.
|>
|>"R. Robert Bell"
|>news:5149173@discussion.autodesk.com...
|>"R. Robert Bell"
|>news:5149129@discussion.autodesk.com...
|>Rick,
|>
|>I've pondered over this request of yours, and feel you might be missing
|>something.
|>
|>Workspaces control the visibility of interface elements *within the
|>constraints of the loaded cui files*. How would a workspace within a
partial
|>cui file even be created that would "know" of the elements normally
|>contained by its "master" cui file?
|>
|>Since a workspace in a partial cui could not
|>
|>
|>
|>... know about the elements in its master cui, how would selecting its
|>workspace be any improvement? Imagine the howls when the standard menus
|>disappear because someone loaded a partial's workspace.
James Maeding
Civil Engineer and Programmer
jmaeding - athunsaker - com
Message 79 of 251
Not applicable
04-20-2006
02:52 PM
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"People don't like it because it doesn't appear to have been very well
thought out." is a severe understatement - autodesk gave it no thought
except for their own purposes!
thought out." is a severe understatement - autodesk gave it no thought
except for their own purposes!
Message 80 of 251
Not applicable
04-20-2006
02:56 PM
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Rick,
I'm glad you started Custom that way, as that is what I recommend these
days. I've tried to duplicate you JIT errors, but cannot (likely missing a
step or two). If you want to email me privately, to work on this, I'd be
happy to help.
--
R. Robert Bell
"Rick Moore" wrote in message
news:5149604@discussion.autodesk.com...
It wasn't the blank one provided, I used the transfer tabs to create a new
custom.cui from my previously customized acad.cui. I was trying to not use
the acad.cui for custom stuff, including workspace storage - that's why I
made the custom.cui the main. Maybe I did something wrong but I tried this
on two different machines and both had the same JIT errors when clicking on
toolbar elements. Switching acad.cui back to main and custom.cui to partial
fixed this problem. Someone else in the 2007 forum had the same problem. My
partial has Keyboard shortcuts and Double click actions and it works fine.
"James Maeding" wrote in message
news:5149564@discussion.autodesk.com...
Rick, did you copy the acad.cui (or acmap.cui) to custom.cui before setting
custom.cui as the main menu?
It simply does not work to make the blank custom.cui the main menu. Mouse
buttons malfunction especially with LDT.
It all boils down to bugs with the CUI system. To deal with them, make the
main cui contain mouse buttons,
accellerators, and other stuff. Its ok to put pop menus and toolbars in
partials, but the other items do not work
right.
If you start each user like I said, the workspaces they make go right in the
main menu, which is custom.cui.
The downside is now the acad menu and user custom menu are one and the same.
At least it works reliably, as opposed to trying to let them customize a
partial menu from the CUI.
If the CUI truly worked how Adesk told me when I called their subscription
help desk, everything would be "found
according to the order the menus appear in the CUI editor", but it aint that
way.
So we do what we hate - let the user hack away at the stuff that is normally
part of the acad default menu.
Rick Moore
|>Hi, Robert. I've got all of my custom interface elements in custom.cui,
|>which is partial to acad.cui. My workspaces have to reside in acad.cui. If
|>you wanted to copy this to another machine how do you get the workspaces
to
|>the other machine? Copy the acad.cui or use the transfer tab - I was
hoping
|>it would be easier but sounds like this isn't possible. BTW, I've tried
|>your method of using the custom.cui as the main but got JIT errors
everytime
|>I tried to adjust the CUI.
I'm glad you started Custom that way, as that is what I recommend these
days. I've tried to duplicate you JIT errors, but cannot (likely missing a
step or two). If you want to email me privately, to work on this, I'd be
happy to help.
--
R. Robert Bell
"Rick Moore"
news:5149604@discussion.autodesk.com...
It wasn't the blank one provided, I used the transfer tabs to create a new
custom.cui from my previously customized acad.cui. I was trying to not use
the acad.cui for custom stuff, including workspace storage - that's why I
made the custom.cui the main. Maybe I did something wrong but I tried this
on two different machines and both had the same JIT errors when clicking on
toolbar elements. Switching acad.cui back to main and custom.cui to partial
fixed this problem. Someone else in the 2007 forum had the same problem. My
partial has Keyboard shortcuts and Double click actions and it works fine.
"James Maeding"
news:5149564@discussion.autodesk.com...
Rick, did you copy the acad.cui (or acmap.cui) to custom.cui before setting
custom.cui as the main menu?
It simply does not work to make the blank custom.cui the main menu. Mouse
buttons malfunction especially with LDT.
It all boils down to bugs with the CUI system. To deal with them, make the
main cui contain mouse buttons,
accellerators, and other stuff. Its ok to put pop menus and toolbars in
partials, but the other items do not work
right.
If you start each user like I said, the workspaces they make go right in the
main menu, which is custom.cui.
The downside is now the acad menu and user custom menu are one and the same.
At least it works reliably, as opposed to trying to let them customize a
partial menu from the CUI.
If the CUI truly worked how Adesk told me when I called their subscription
help desk, everything would be "found
according to the order the menus appear in the CUI editor", but it aint that
way.
So we do what we hate - let the user hack away at the stuff that is normally
part of the acad default menu.
Rick Moore
|>Hi, Robert. I've got all of my custom interface elements in custom.cui,
|>which is partial to acad.cui. My workspaces have to reside in acad.cui. If
|>you wanted to copy this to another machine how do you get the workspaces
to
|>the other machine? Copy the acad.cui or use the transfer tab - I was
hoping
|>it would be easier but sounds like this isn't possible. BTW, I've tried
|>your method of using the custom.cui as the main but got JIT errors
everytime
|>I tried to adjust the CUI.