CUI Editor Enhancements

CUI Editor Enhancements

dcochran
Archived Account
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Message 1 of 251

CUI Editor Enhancements

dcochran
Archived Account
Hello,

We are looking at ways to improve and enhance the CUI Editor in AutoCAD. As a customer, what improvements would you like to see with CUI?

Thanks in advance for your input!

Doug Cochran
Autodesk, Inc.
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6,553 Views
250 Replies
Replies (250)
Message 2 of 251

Anonymous
Not applicable
give me an option without goowee (GUI)
just plain old text editor option, so i can fine tune
and be in full control

thanks
mark


wrote in message news:5146408@discussion.autodesk.com...
Hello,

We are looking at ways to improve and enhance the CUI Editor in AutoCAD. As
a customer, what improvements would you like to see with CUI?

Thanks in advance for your input!

Doug Cochran
Autodesk, Inc.
0 Likes
Message 3 of 251

Anonymous
Not applicable
Ability to use the old method without all the jumping through hoops. I
still enter all changes in the mnu file and recompile. It's the mnu because
I don't do icons. Much easier to control for what I'm doing. When I need
the AutoCAD menu I call it up by shortcut keys but that is rare.


wrote in message news:5146408@discussion.autodesk.com...
Hello,

We are looking at ways to improve and enhance the CUI Editor in AutoCAD. As
a customer, what improvements would you like to see with CUI?

Thanks in advance for your input!

Doug Cochran
Autodesk, Inc.
0 Likes
Message 4 of 251

Anonymous
Not applicable
Hi Mark,

It will never be acceptable until you can make it start instantly.

The 10 second average delay to respond to the command to open the dalog box
is a reflection of incompetant programming.

With my slightly modified MNU editing system I can make a change to the MNU
file and reload the modified menu in less time than it takes to open the CUI
editor.


Laurie Comerford
CADApps
www.cadapps.com.au

"mark" wrote in message
news:5146421@discussion.autodesk.com...
give me an option without goowee (GUI)
just plain old text editor option, so i can fine tune
and be in full control

thanks
mark


wrote in message news:5146408@discussion.autodesk.com...
Hello,

We are looking at ways to improve and enhance the CUI Editor in AutoCAD. As
a customer, what improvements would you like to see with CUI?

Thanks in advance for your input!

Doug Cochran
Autodesk, Inc.
0 Likes
Message 5 of 251

Anonymous
Not applicable
Bring back the old way. It worked fine before your team "updated" it. CUI is
slow and clunky, and the format is undocumented, so we're forced to use the
CUI environment. Using MNS files and directly editing them was much easier
(and forgiving) for CAD managers and developers to distribute customization
files. CUI is also more difficult for beginners to figure out. I've had to
help users with "clouds" on their toolbars much more often than with "smiley
faces".

--------------------------------------
Phil Kenewell
Gage Designer
North American Lighting, Inc.

wrote in message news:5146408@discussion.autodesk.com...
Hello,

We are looking at ways to improve and enhance the CUI Editor in AutoCAD. As
a customer, what improvements would you like to see with CUI?

Thanks in advance for your input!

Doug Cochran
Autodesk, Inc.
0 Likes
Message 6 of 251

Anonymous
Not applicable
my biggest problem with it is that if you make a custom (partial) menu with toolbars and you close the tool bar its pretty hard to reopen it
0 Likes
Message 7 of 251

Anonymous
Not applicable
[I've had to help users with "clouds" on their toolbars much more often than with "smiley faces".]

I've had zero problems with missing icons since CUI came out. The old way always generated randomly named icons all over the place causing name mismatches and missing icons all the time.
0 Likes
Message 8 of 251

Anonymous
Not applicable
At first, I thought your question was a joke and I had to think about
it. Then I realized that you probably have noticed all the “problems”
that users have concerning the cui. If not, then autodesk should pay
more attention to their customers/users.

First my general comment is that the cui should never have been
initiated. Having said that, I will proceed:

The entire procedure of the cui editor is cumbersome and confusing.
Regardless of experience, it takes a programmer (or a near programmer)
to understand the process of the cui. It took me sometime before I found
that when I wanted to add a new command to any part of the cui, I had to
pick the “New” button at the bottom part of the left side of the editor.
Advising me to go through the process of watching animation on how to
use the cui is worthless – most users do not have the time for this!

On the other hand, when in the upper part of the left hand side of the
cui editor, right clicking brings up commands to have a new Menu or Sub
Menu but _not_ a new command! Why? This is one thing that I would
suggest changing while deleting the New command from the bottom-left.

While not addressing your question directly, I do not understand why
autodesk/autocad decided to go with the cui. It is evident that autodesk
does not fully realize that most autocad users _do not have the
experience_ to correctly navigate the cui.

I teach autocad at our community college (the second largest in the US)
and have decided to not introduce customizing cui because most of my
students do not have enough experience to understand it as opposed to
more fully understanding the mnu, mns system. Essentially, they will go
into the workplace at a disadvantage and their
employers/managers/supervisors do not, nor will not take the time to
help them. In a sense, autodesk has “shot themselves in the foot” and
this will be reflected in the future when more companies/individuals
will walk away from autocad in favor of a more compliant software.
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Message 9 of 251

Anonymous
Not applicable
Doug:

> As a customer, what improvements would you like to see with CUI?

I stopped using it after fumbling around it a few times, so I don't have
much to offer on the CUI dialog itself. My impression is that the CUI
editor suffers from a split personality. It is trying to be both a tool for
editing .cui files, and a tool for allowing users to customize their
workspace. In the end, it doesn't perform either function very well.

CUI in general should be documented and user extensible with third party
tools. I think the single XML file format is a good improvement over the
old mnu/mnc/mnr files, but it needs to be properly documented, and its
function and purpose needs to be re-architected and separated into discreet
components.

For example, I think a .cui file should define user interface elements;
nothing more and nothing less. How (and whether) those elements are
displayed on the screen should be determined by a separate set of settings,
perhaps saved in a separate XML file for each workspace; or better yet, in
the registry, where they can be easily accessed by third party
install/uninstall operations. 🙂
--
Owen Wengerd
President, ManuSoft ==> http://www.manusoft.com
VP Americas, CADLock, Inc. ==> http://www.cadlock.com
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Message 10 of 251

Anonymous
Not applicable
dcochran wrote:
> Hello,
>
> We are looking at ways to improve and enhance the CUI Editor in AutoCAD. As a customer, what improvements would you like to see with CUI?
>
> Thanks in advance for your input!
>
> Doug Cochran
> Autodesk, Inc.

The biggest problems are in the architecture and undocumented
functionality of the CUI system itself. For example, in a situation with
main and enterprise customization files, and a few partial CUI files, I
have 4 different places where I can define mouse button bindings or
whatever. I have yet to find any Autodesk documentation on which of
these definitions will be obeyed, or in what way do they get combined.
- In this discussion group there have been some messages which have
helped, but they have all a major problem: they are from outsiders,
trying to deduce the functionality from observed behaviour. This is
something that Autodesk itself should tell us.

Apart from the many architectural problems in the CUI system as such,
the CUI editor could use some work. The slow startup speed is annoying,
especially as due to the lousy documentation it needs to be used in a
trial-and-error way.

- Is there a good reason why it has to be a modal dialog? If it were
non-modal like VLIDE, so that I could do something, press Apply, go to
the AutoCAD window and try out the new definition, and return to the CUI
window just by mousing back, it would be far easier to use. The startup
times wouldn't be such a problem, either, if I would only need to wait
for that on the first time.

The biggest problem is that it has practically nonexistent error
reporting. I only get either a blanket complaint about corrupt CUI file,
but no detail on which part creates the problem, or no error reports
whatsoever, AutoCAD just fails to do what I was trying to define.

Other problems in no specific order:

- The system records the position of the CUI window in the profile, and
on next start opens it in the same place. This creates a problem when I
use it on a machine with two screens, and save the profile, and later
try to start CUI using that profile when on a machine with only one
screen. The program doesn't bother to check whether the saved
coordinates are in a displayable location. So, I have a modal dialog
sitting off-screen, with no other way to recover than killing AutoCAD
with Task Manager. (tabbing to cancel blindly might work, if I happened
to remember where the default is in this situation.)

- The workspaces functionality needs clarification. Some operations only
work for the current workspace, but by default no workspace is shown as
current when starting CUI. So what is happening in that situation?
- What is going on with Unresolved menu items? What should be done with
them? Why?

- The program always re-reads the .cui file(s), overriding the menu
situation currently on-screen. There is API functionality to modify
menus etc programmatically, but I have found no way to save that
configuration. It would be rather more usable, if the CUI editor could
also accept the current screen situation, and dump it to file if needed.

- You ever try what happens if you name a .cui file with a period in the
name? I tried acadr16.2.cui, and the system became almost totally
nonfunctional (with no error reports, of course). It only recovered when
I went to the XML file with an editor and changed all 16.2 :s to 16_2.
Seems that the system generates names in the style of
.., and elsewhere re-splits them by searching
for the periods. Would it be too much bother for the programmers to run
a little sanity check on user-given names before accepting them? Not to
speak of documenting any non-allowed characters?

--
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Message 11 of 251

Anonymous
Not applicable
>>>Bring back the old way.<<<

I agree.
I have a pretty sophisticated set up here.
CNC dept, Manufacturing drawers, break operators.
We've developed this system since r10 and now all of a sudden I'm being asked to "toss it" and somehow make this new system act and feel like our old one?
Or develop this new system into the same functionality as our old one.

To tell you the truth, I just don't have the time and I can't risk the slow down & learning curve and debugging time that's involved with a switch like this.

Has anyone at Autodesk stopped to consider that we are using their product in an "industrial strength" enviornment? And that all their good ideas don't translate into an economical way of executing all of the changes?
I know it's not their money, why should they care?

We need a system that we can switch our existing system over to and maintain the same funtionality that we are using now! R2005.

Bill
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Message 12 of 251

Anonymous
Not applicable
Allow workspaces to be saved in partial menus
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Message 13 of 251

Anonymous
Not applicable
How about an option to disable it and use mnu. This thing has been a
nightmare for me using multiple profiles, all with different menus.

wrote in message news:5146408@discussion.autodesk.com...
Hello,

We are looking at ways to improve and enhance the CUI Editor in AutoCAD. As
a customer, what improvements would you like to see with CUI?

Thanks in advance for your input!

Doug Cochran
Autodesk, Inc.
0 Likes
Message 14 of 251

Anonymous
Not applicable
Thanks Doug for letting us voice our opinions.

Any chance it could run independently as a separate app? This would allow quicker access without the startup time (previously mentioned). I think it would also be a bonus to be able to see the application and the editor at the same time.

Hitting the X (top right) should prompt to save changes, (like most apps). Not just give a warning about losing changes.

Making the Enterprise menu read-only should be by users choice. That is a 'personnel' problem not a software problem.

I second the general consensus that the .mnu format was better, PLEASE don't drop that functionality. I'm trying my best to change.
0 Likes
Message 15 of 251

Anonymous
Not applicable
in A2k7, mnu was going to be discontinued ...it did not,
but Autodesk might stop supporting it in future versions, who knows

"Laurie Comerford" wrote in message
news:5146492@discussion.autodesk.com...
Hi Mark,

It will never be acceptable until you can make it start instantly.

The 10 second average delay to respond to the command to open the dalog box
is a reflection of incompetant programming.

With my slightly modified MNU editing system I can make a change to the MNU
file and reload the modified menu in less time than it takes to open the CUI
editor.


Laurie Comerford
CADApps
www.cadapps.com.au

"mark" wrote in message
news:5146421@discussion.autodesk.com...
give me an option without goowee (GUI)
just plain old text editor option, so i can fine tune
and be in full control

thanks
mark


wrote in message news:5146408@discussion.autodesk.com...
Hello,

We are looking at ways to improve and enhance the CUI Editor in AutoCAD. As
a customer, what improvements would you like to see with CUI?

Thanks in advance for your input!

Doug Cochran
Autodesk, Inc.
0 Likes
Message 16 of 251

mid-awe
Collaborator
Collaborator
Previously mentioned was that with a simple setup you can end up with four places to decide shortcut menus and basically everything other than workspaces. I personally encountered a situation where it appeared that the partial menus (acad.cui & acetmain.cui) were overriding my custom.cui. That may not have been the case at all but I had no real way of discerning the truth. So, after a few costly hours I removed the intruding menus & toolbars from the partial menus just to get an "usable" interface.

I would like to be able to set visibility by way of checkbox or -?- directly from within the cui editor. So that all available options are always present but I can simple check or uncheck if items are to be visible.

One of the best customization features of the old mns/mnu/mnc system was with the toolbars and their ability to just drag a button from one toolbar to the next, customizing in real-time. Why is there no feature like that in the new system. I can imagine drag and drop menus and options, toolbars and buttons, tool palettes etc..

cuiload & cuiunload are not very helpful since the entire cui structure is compromised each time you unload and then reload the cui-file. My issue is this; as soon as I unload the main cui file then the entire system forgets then loaded partial files too. What I'd like is to be able to unload any part of the structure and reload without having to rebuild the entire setup. The enterprise.cui and all partial menus should be remembered in the custom or main cui so that if or when I cuiunload and cuiload only the changes made to the custom cui file are committed to the customized user interface and I'm not forced to reload all partial files. Is there not a way to store associated structures?

Hey, you asked 😉 but, thanks for listening.
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Message 17 of 251

Anonymous
Not applicable
AutoCAD 2007 has a managed API for the CUI, and it
is not AutoCAD-dependent so it can be loaded and used
from any process, such as an installer.

--
http://www.caddzone.com

AcadXTabs: MDI Document Tabs for AutoCAD 2004/2005/2006/2007
http://www.acadxtabs.com

"Owen Wengerd" wrote in message news:5146755@discussion.autodesk.com...
Doug:

> As a customer, what improvements would you like to see with CUI?

I stopped using it after fumbling around it a few times, so I don't have
much to offer on the CUI dialog itself. My impression is that the CUI
editor suffers from a split personality. It is trying to be both a tool for
editing .cui files, and a tool for allowing users to customize their
workspace. In the end, it doesn't perform either function very well.

CUI in general should be documented and user extensible with third party
tools. I think the single XML file format is a good improvement over the
old mnu/mnc/mnr files, but it needs to be properly documented, and its
function and purpose needs to be re-architected and separated into discreet
components.

For example, I think a .cui file should define user interface elements;
nothing more and nothing less. How (and whether) those elements are
displayed on the screen should be determined by a separate set of settings,
perhaps saved in a separate XML file for each workspace; or better yet, in
the registry, where they can be easily accessed by third party
install/uninstall operations. 🙂
--
Owen Wengerd
President, ManuSoft ==> http://www.manusoft.com
VP Americas, CADLock, Inc. ==> http://www.cadlock.com
0 Likes
Message 18 of 251

Anonymous
Not applicable
On Tue, 18 Apr 2006 20:59:56 +0000, dcochran <> wrote:

>We are looking at ways to improve and enhance the CUI Editor in AutoCAD.

Sweet!

>As a customer, what improvements would you like to see with CUI?

Fire the people responsible for its design and QA testing.

>Thanks in advance for your input!

You're welcome.

Matt
mstachoni@comcast.net
mstachoni@bhhtait.com
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Message 19 of 251

Anonymous
Not applicable
If the mnu option is discontinued and the CUI isn't fixed (speed to
open, ease of use, reliability, etc.) it will guarantee that I will drop
my subscription and find an alternate program. I'm an engineer. I
don't need someone to hold my hand or pretty up an interface. I need
something that's fast, efficient, and reliable. The CUI isn't any of
those at this point.

Martin

mark wrote:
> in A2k7, mnu was going to be discontinued ...it did not,
> but Autodesk might stop supporting it in future versions, who knows
>
> "Laurie Comerford" wrote in message
> news:5146492@discussion.autodesk.com...
> Hi Mark,
>
> It will never be acceptable until you can make it start instantly.
>
> The 10 second average delay to respond to the command to open the dalog box
> is a reflection of incompetant programming.
>
> With my slightly modified MNU editing system I can make a change to the MNU
> file and reload the modified menu in less time than it takes to open the CUI
> editor.
>
>
> Laurie Comerford
> CADApps
> www.cadapps.com.au
>
> "mark" wrote in message
> news:5146421@discussion.autodesk.com...
> give me an option without goowee (GUI)
> just plain old text editor option, so i can fine tune
> and be in full control
>
> thanks
> mark
>
>
> wrote in message news:5146408@discussion.autodesk.com...
> Hello,
>
> We are looking at ways to improve and enhance the CUI Editor in AutoCAD. As
> a customer, what improvements would you like to see with CUI?
>
> Thanks in advance for your input!
>
> Doug Cochran
> Autodesk, Inc.
0 Likes
Message 20 of 251

Anonymous
Not applicable
After reading all the responses, this comes closest to what I was going
to voice.
I would add the ability to right-click and copy-n-paste, in addition to
drag-n-drop.

- Jim

MiD-AwE wrote:
> Previously mentioned was that with a simple setup you can end up with
> four places to decide shortcut menus and basically everything other
> than workspaces. I personally encountered a situation where it
> appeared that the partial menus (acad.cui & acetmain.cui) were
> overriding my custom.cui. That may not have been the case at all but
> I had no real way of discerning the truth. So, after a few costly
> hours I removed the intruding menus & toolbars from the partial menus
> just to get an "usable" interface.
>
> I would like to be able to set visibility by way of checkbox or -?-
> directly from within the cui editor. So that all available options
> are always present but I can simple check or uncheck if items are to
> be visible.
>
> One of the best customization features of the old mns/mnu/mnc system
> was with the toolbars and their ability to just drag a button from
> one toolbar to the next, customizing in real-time. Why is there no
> feature like that in the new system. I can imagine drag and drop
> menus and options, toolbars and buttons, tool palettes etc..
>
> cuiload & cuiunload are not very helpful since the entire cui
> structure is compromised each time you unload and then reload the
> cui-file. My issue is this; as soon as I unload the main cui file
> then the entire system forgets then loaded partial files too. What
> I'd like is to be able to unload any part of the structure and reload
> without having to rebuild the entire setup. The enterprise.cui and
> all partial menus should be remembered in the custom or main cui so
> that if or when I cuiunload and cuiload only the changes made to the
> custom cui file are committed to the customized user interface and
> I'm not forced to reload all partial files. Is there not a way to
> store associated structures?
>
> Hey, you asked 😉 but, thanks for listening.
0 Likes