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I want a revision bias similar to what files have for items. I want a flag that states that you prefer to see consumable versions of the child revision that the parent linked to. So that the Item-BOM directly reflects the state of my Assembly and don't gets automatically the newest Item Versions. And then the Information that there is a newer Version of this Item.
I'm trying to create a bill of materials using item records. I have an item that has revisions A, B, C. I want to include rev B in this item BOM.
I can use the "Add from existing" button to add the item into the BOM. I can de-select "show only latest versions" and then search for the part. The results show the item record with all of its revs, A, B, C. When I select rev B and add it to the BOM, it automatically puts rev C into the BOM. I cannot edit this revision field.
There should be access to choose revision with correct value.
That functionality (PLM) is not possible with Vault. Vault can only do PDM. THe fact that you cannot use older revisions of files or items is a result of the way vault handles revisions. A new revision is not a new file or record, but another version of the same record.
I agree with you completely. But do you have some “official” Autodesk link for that statement? I get that requirement rather often as well and would like to have some good reply to end such discussions quickly.
I'm trying to create a bill of materials using item records. I have an item that has revisions A, B, C. I want to include rev B in this item BOM.
I can use the "Add from existing" button to add the item into the BOM. I can de-select "show only latest versions" and then search for the part. The results show the item record with all of its revs, A, B, C. When I select rev B and add it to the BOM, it automatically puts rev C into the BOM. I cannot edit this revision field.
There should be access to choose revision with correct value.
I'm trying to create a bill of materials using item records. I have an item that has revisions A, B, C. I want to include rev B in this item BOM.
I can use the "Add from existing" button to add the item into the BOM. I can de-select "show only latest versions" and then search for the part. The results show the item record with all of its revs, A, B, C. When I select rev B and add it to the BOM, it automatically puts rev C into the BOM. I cannot edit this revision field.
There should be access to choose revision with correct value.
@RajSchmidt I don't think there is an official statement. Software makers usually don't list the features their software is lacking ;c). It is just the way Vault works and the experience I have with other PDM/PLM software. The discontinued Productstream Professional made a copy each time you created a new revision. THAT was a full fledged PLM solution. Vault just doesn't have that functionality. Perhaps they add it in the future if Autodesk wants Vault to be one of the major PDM/PLM solutions.
Problem: An itemized CAD model of a machine that is installed at a customer site and is a few years old, contains outdated item revisions.
After revising the top-item and adding an extra sub-assembly in Inventor, all other sub-items are set to the latest revision when the top-item is released again.
As a result, the revisions of the unchanged sub-items no longer match with what is installed on site. It is impossible to create a correct as-built.
The Vault File-based-life-cycle already allows the release of assemblies with outdated sub-assembly revisions, but the Itemenvironment does not. Can this also be added please.
Sidenote, in our opinion, storing a machine in an as-built state is a key feature of a PDM. (and should not require a PLM.)
I moved your post from the Ideas board as you can already perform what you are asking.
If you need the assembly to keep the old revisions of the sub-assembly, except the one you add, you should perform a Get on a specific Revision of the Top-level assembly. This will get the assembly as it was built.
@ihayesjr, thank you for your fast response. I agree that this is possible in the Project Explorer file environment.
But once we go to the Item Master and change the state to released, the children of this modified Item-BOM are automatically pushed to their latest revision. (what we do not want)
We have had contact with Autodesk Customer Support Germany. Your colleague there told us lifecycles on items always push their children to the latest revision when released. (case 22991102 – Autodesk Germany)
Is there a use case on how to release Items and not push their children to their latest revision? We have tried a lot of things but were unsuccessful for the moment.
Agreed, "storing a machine in an as-built state is a key feature of a PDM."
Please enable releasing the item BOMs with outdated sub-assembly revs so we can better support retrofits of our customers' machinery and retain accurate as-built models.
We have had contact with Autodesk Customer Support Germany. Your colleague there told us lifecycles on items always push their children to the latest revision when released. (case 22991102 – Autodesk Germany)
In response to this statement. The latest child item that is in Work in Progress will always use the latest version of the child file. This doesn't mean that the parent Item is going to use the latest revision of the child item.
For example, a the parent Item is at Revision A using the child Item at Revision A. You release the child Item and move it to WIP and create Revision B of the child. The parent Item at Revision A is still using Revision A of the child. It doesn't use Revision B of the child.
Make sure you are understanding this drop-down option correctly.
Hi Mr Hayes, thanks for the info, I agree with all that you are saying that once an Item BOM is locked, it freezes al its item-child-revisions. But the problem happens when we want to revise the top-Item of the Bom or itemize it for the first child.
I have added an example to explain in more detail. In the File Explorer, we can save the CAD-BOM perfectly as-built with the correct revisions that we want. But when itemized or when the top item is revised and updated, all the primary files linked to its children are pushed to the latest.
In the example below, the CAD-assembly is released and one of it's children (V000031319) is not the latest revision (orange circle). It is Revision 01 and has Version 15.
But once itemized, the item for V000031319 suddenly is linked to primary file version 20.
This item BOM is then used to export to the ERP.
When the Item BOM is later on consulted to check what primary file is installed at the client, they get the wrong file:
I'm sorry, but you are both describing PLM functionality. Vault is a PDM system. It is not a PLM system. It looks like you both do not understand the difference. In PDM (like vault) you can use only the last version of an item or a file. It is not possible to have for instance an assembly with revision 1 and revision 2 of a part in the same assembly. There is just one revision of a file available. The last one. In a PLM system you can have an assembly with revision 1 and revision 2 of a part. What usually happens is that a new revision of a file is a copy of the previous revision with a suffix. For example in a PLM system called Compass revison 0 of a file would be called file0001.ipt. Revision 1 would be called file0001-01.ipt That will allow you to have different revisions of a file in the same assembly. The same was true for Items. Each revision of an item was its own instance in the database. IN VAULT THIS IS SIMPLY NOT POSSIBLE. You have always the last revision of the files and items in you models.
I'm not sure we are understanding each other correctly
I'm not aiming at having a revision 1 and a revision 2 in the same assembly...
My basic question is: how can the contents of an assembly change, without this assembly ever going out of a release state.
And with 'change', I mean in this case that a part in the assembly's underlying BOM structure changes from revision A to B.
Unless a change in 'revision' of a child is not considered a change
And that, I admit, was not the way I understood Vault works, and was certainly not how it was sold to us by our certified integrarator
You can argue that this is the difference between PLM and PDM, but why then Vault (being PDM) has items, BOM management, lifecycle on items, and revisions? Or one adds it to the PDM, and it works correctly and consistently, or one doesn't add it.
Saying IN VAULT THIS IS SIMPLY NOT POSSIBLE is not the same as IT SHOULD BE POSSIBLE IN VAULT BUT CURRENTLY IT IS NOT
(imho)
@ihayesjr I'm interested to hear your opinion in this matter
You probably assume that when you have a BOM that the relations with its members in that BOM are a specific revision. That is not true in Vault. In your example you have item 100002 with members 100003 an 100004. That is the only relationship Vault manages. It does not matter what revision these items are. Vault will always show the last revision. In your example you mention 100003 version A and B. These do not exist as two separate items in Vault. Only one item 100003 exists and its latest revision is B. Every BOM in Vault that has item 100003 in it, will always show the latest version. In a PLM system 100003 revision A and 100003 revision B are two separate entities in the database. There you can have one BOM with item 100003 revision A and another BOM with item 100003 revision B. Vault is a very basic PDM system. It is not capable of tracking which version of an item is installed in what product or installation. That is PLM functionality.
because the origin of this discussion is my idea, I would like to bring in my opinion.
@mvdberg of course you have more then one revision of an item in vault. You are even able to see which revision of which item is used in which BOM. Please try it and switch the filter from newest to another revision.
The problem is, that you are not able to use an outdated revision inside of an item BOM as you are able in the file BOM. So there is no possibility to display the as-built BOM.
The idea is to make this possible, as it is in the file level. If you follow the rule for fit, form, function for making a revision there shouldn't be issues regarding this, but if you transfer the BOM to an ERP-system you have to be aware what happens there.
