Reference Files from Outside Organization with Duplicate File Names

[JohnEvansAEC]

I am trying to resolve some issues with duplicate names IN EVERY PROJECT. 

1. I work with lazy people, and have leadership that does not think all the file naming hoopla is all that important.

2. I receive numerous updated engineering datasets from external teams, and their updated files have the same file names as their previous versions.

In an attempt to stop the duplicate file naming on-site, I want to turn turn on the Enforce Unique File Names. If I do so, it will be a major PITA for anyone loading Files from Others that are updates to existing files. As a work around, I could place the Files from Others in a protected folder. I am seriously considering it, but it would be awkward, and require a certain amount of linking.

If I rename the Files from Others, then their internal references will not resolve. Our team would then have to reconnect everything, and I think that's a no-go.

Does anyone have any GOOD suggestions? "Get your organization to come together with some reasonable understanding of how to behave around your data" is not a GOOD suggestion here.

[RajSchmidt]

I like you last sentence. Although I think that this suggestion is excellent in general. 😁

Anyway, since Vault 2024.1 you can set the unique filenames selectively for certain folders in Vault.

As for handling external revisions:

• check out the files which have come back revised
• overwrite the local copy with the data from you supplier
• check in the new files

That way you will even create a proper history in Vault.

Hope that helps a bit

[Frederick_Law]

Updated files don't need unique names.  It's annoying to rename every file and keep the reference.

They need new Revision.

Revise all to next Revision after check in.

[JohnEvansAEC]

@RajSchmidt 

Thank you for the reply. As for the initial response, " you can set the unique filenames selectively for certain folders in Vault", I'd have to establish new instances daily for entire datasets. That's not a reasonable solution, as we receive multiple datasets daily (some single-file, some hundreds-of-files).

As for the latter suggestion, I'd have to check out all the files, (sometimes a hundred), and then check them back in. This presents two major issues:

1) We don't receive every revision the external teams produce, only what they feel like sending. This creates a problem when we get something out of sync for a special need, and we'd have the history stack out of order; and no we have no recourse to demand all revisions.

2) This also provides we could resolve all the references, which is not possible as we rarely receive ALL the files. We almost always have to make a one-off next to the original, recategorize it, and remove all the missing references so we can move forward.

We add each update to a folder named similar to "2024-5-14 CAD PDF Plan update from so-n-so". I can take an auditor back to the original email and prove we didn't monkey fart with the data. I'd love to develop the history stack for their designs, but I NEVER get everything required to resolve the issues for Vault.

I just had a discussion with my team (my close in team) and they are on-board for a separate external source folder in the Vault. My concept is to link that separate folder structure into the internal design project  in place of the old folder build for external sourced data. In effect, they'll never see the difference in the project. I'll just exclude that external sourced folder from the unique file name requirements. This seems to be my only reasonable idea.

This does however go to my request to @ihayesjr (I can't find it at the moment) to create Category specific exclusions for Vault Dependency checks when checking dataset into Vault. If the file is Categorized as "external" the dependency checks could be waived. The same could be applied here for Unique File Names, which could also be excluded/waived for the same Category.

[JohnEvansAEC]

@Frederick_Law 

Thank you. Please see my response above.

[RajSchmidt · Accepted solution]

Hi @JohnEvansAEC , that sounds like a rather cracked up situation to me. Thing is, you will have to change something, somewhere. Otherwise you will run into chaos sooner or later. If something gets screwed up and you produce a heap of scrap the bosses will look for someone to blame.

I think your idea with a special folder for external files might work. At least you will have a kind of sandbox for this data.

The other request, to exclude data from dependency check, will probably not work. I believe these checks are in the core of the Vault-Inventor interface. You could skip them by simply dragging the files into Vault. However, that would simply postpone any problems.

[Frederick_Law]

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@JohnEvansAEC wrote:

@Frederick_Law 

Thank you. Please see my response above.

---

You can revise up to any level.  You can't revise down.

So, if you're at Rev 1 and they send you Rev 4.  Just revise the new files to Rev 4.

Another way is keep all rev off Vault and only keep current rev in Vault.

[JohnEvansAEC]

Thanks @RajSchmidt ,

Yeah, that's what we have to do now, drag load. And we have to crate one-off files for any needs we have, purging references that can't be resolved. It sucks, but we have no recourse.

John Evans

[JohnEvansAEC]

@Frederick_Law 

Yes, but consider the following:

1) if another client sends me the same file, requesting different work using rev. 3, and 4 is on the stack, we've created a new problem.

2) Let's say there's a dataset containing 50 files. My CAD tech takes 15-30 min wading through this stuff to find the three files he really needs (remember, we have no idea how each vendor may organize their data). He then takes an hour to extract the data he needs, checking in the file(s) he has had to create (We never revise outside datasets). Admin is only expecting to invoice 1.5 hrs for this work order. There's no way we can deal with 50 files organized by other vendors, checking in revisions - we'd lose money.

Being completely straight forward here, I have never tried to build a history with an outside dataset. I cannot see how to accomplish it realistically without editing the files (redirect references, etc.), which for the purposes of audit trail, we cannot do. Big fat no-no.

Now, I can see it completely with Boeing or another vendor whose data is tight, and you have a rather specific contract through a development cycle - yeah, that's different. 

AEC is rather high-speed-low-drag, and is usually rather disorganized. I am trying to bring real organization and revision control to the unorganized 'why does it matter?' crowd.

Cheers,

John

[JohnEvansAEC]

@Frederick_Law ,

That latter suggestion, Keeping obsolete off-server; I've considered it, but it would be painful. Old Vault references would be lost. Uggghhh.

However, I do appreciate you reminding me of that.

Cheers,

John

[Frederick_Law · Accepted solution]

You should contact your AutoDesk reseller, Vault installer and get them to take a look at what you're doing.

One way to "remove" duplicated files is add timestamp to filename.  And Project number, Job number.

Vault can do that and keep all reference.

You can have folders of different "revision" in Vault.

[RajSchmidt]

Just an afterthought: Is there a chance to let your suppliers work in your Vault, in a separate Folder? They would need their own licenses, though. But you can grant them access via Vault Gateway.

[JohnEvansAEC]

@RajSchmidt 

I will keep that in mind as a possibility for a couple of my routine selected groups. I doubt any want to learn new software, but it's definitely worth considering. Then we get into the IT issues, domain pipeline, etc., but I appreciate the suggestion.

Cheers,

John

[JohnEvansAEC]

Hmmm,

Let me think on that... Renaming the existing files so the Vault can handle the references. I didn't think of it that way.

I'm gonna ponder this a bit more. Thanks @Frederick_Law .

[Frederick_Law]

Need to check them in and Rename in Vault.

As long as Vault allow duplicated check in.

I'm work on one like that because they just through everything into Vault.

Duplicated files are ok, as long as you don't open them (part and assembly using the part) at the same time.

[JohnEvansAEC]

@Frederick_Law 

My thoughts about your suggestion were to rename the existing BEFORE checking in the duplicate. I think this would create fewer steps, and it might just work. I hate to rename their files, but if they were automated date stamps we'd all get used to it and understand how to behave.

[Frederick_Law]

Then you can use Design Assistant.

Vault can rename and add prefix and suffix.

Outside Vault you can use iLogic also.

BTW Adding to the name might make the "path" too long for Windows.