ITEMs or not?

[Anonymous]

How do other companies use ITEMs? There are properties in the file like Revision Number and State, etc. that need to be displayed on drawings and it would be convenient if these properties could be viewed inside Inventor in the Data Card for the file also. I have tried to map these properties from the ITEM back to the files attached to this ITEM but when you move the ITEM to a released state the files attached to it are locked which prevents my properties from updating. See this post:

https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/vault-general-discussion/item-revision-and-lifecycle-on-ipt-or-iam-da...

Why isn’t there built in mapping that when you choose to manage Lifecycles and Revisions with ITEMs that Vault would automatically sync the state and rev properties between ITEMs and FILEs with the ITEM being the master? I have heard of managing state and revision on both items and files but I can see that being a real pain to keep track of.

I was hoping to use the Item Master to manage our bill of materials but I'm starting to wonder if it's worth the mess and we should just lifecycle and revision on the part level instead?

I would love to hear how others are doing this. Thanks!

[tschaeferZNBXX]

If you create an Item for the top level I believe that it will create all the parts below it as well.

I do not have much experience with .csv files so I cannot answer that part.

[Anonymous]

Here is a link to the CADAC Organice app @Neil_Cross mentioned earlier:

https://apps.autodesk.com/VLTC/en/Detail/Index?id=4714748599172445186&appLang=en&os=Win32_64

I didn't realize it was available on the app store. There is a free trial but some of the specific functionality I was looking for is not enabled in the trial (Item/Doc property sync for example)

Speaking of BoM tools, here is something interesting I just ran across:

http://www.openbom.com/

They have integrations with Autodesk (Inventor at least) and Onshape. Some of the pain points they claim to solve we have already gotten around by using Excel Online for collaboration on BoMs but it does have some neat features and is very affordable.

[Neil_Cross]

I didn't realise they'd put that on the app store either, however it's kinda pointless for this purpose as they've disabled most of the Item stuff in the download from the app store (says disabled in trial).  

Best bet is to just drop them an email, honestly they're the nicest bunch of guys I've ever dealt with and will bend over backwards to help you out.  They're the total opposite of hard ball pressure driven salesmen, you won't get that from them.

[ryan]

If you are going to use both Items and Documents, then treat them as seperate entities.  Trying to unify the state and revision between both is trying to put a square peg in a round hole.   The document workflow handles the file, the item workflow handles the BOM (releasing a file does not lock the item, releasing the item does not lock the file).

In terms of property mappings, here are two points which I usually incorporate when a customer is using both file and item workflows;

• If a Vault Property exists for both Files and Items, set the File mapping bi-directionally, but set the Item mapping uni-directionally (from file to item). 
• Create two Item properties, File State and File Revision which have their property mappings set to read from the corresponding file Properties and/or attributes.  This is done as an aid so that when you are reviewing the item, you can tell what the state and revision of the file is that is currently associated to the item (in turn, the System state and System Revision properites are pushing their values down to the file iProperties).

Shameless Plug; For more information about the setup I use, please see the document I wrote for the Autodesk University 2011 class title "Dogs and Cats Living Together" which I did with Brian Schanen, specifically the section titled "Vault Configuration for Revision Control using both Files & Items".

[Anonymous]

What is disappointing to me is that Autodesk, or at least our reseller, was marketing Items as an easy way for us to manage Revisions of a part and all of its supporting documentation in one place. This way a Rev of an Item would include the correct versions of ipt, iam, idw, dwg, pdf, excel sheet, etc. all locked down in one place by the Lifecycle state of the Item. I agree that this does not seem to work well. So for me, if my link to ERP is going to be a manual process for now, is there any other benefit in using Items?

@ryan do you have a link to that doc? I can't seem to find it on the AU website...

[ryan]

Your VAR would be correct *if* you were only using Item workflows; that way, all of the files encapsulated under the item record via a "one-to-many" relationship. However, if you are using both Item and File workflows, then inherently they must be disconnected.

Since I'm not sure if I can post the document publicly, I will send it to you through a PM.

-Ryan

Ryan Small, Technical Specialist
1.877.438.2231 x110
2300 Steeles Ave West, Suite 240, Vaughan, ON L4K 5X6
[[image]]

[Anonymous]

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@Anonymous wrote:
Your VAR would be correct *if* you were only using Item workflows; that way, all of the files encapsulated under the item record via a "one-to-many" relationship. However, if you are using both Item and File workflows, then inherently they must be disconnected.

Since I'm not sure if I can post the document publicly, I will send it to you through a PM.

---

@ryan 

I did test the "one-to-many" Item workflow but this breaks other functionality in Inventor like being able to view current State and Revision on the Vault Data Cards or displaying State and Revision in title blocks for example. See my first post here in this thread...

My initial plan had been to use only the Item workflows but after realizing the limitations of Item properties writing back to File properties I have pretty much given that idea up.

[phil.tough]

Is this still the case? I'm trying to set up Vault Pro 2019 to have what is to my mind a pretty simple workflow and my plan is being dashed at every turn by the inability to share properties between items and files. I can't believe it is not more intuitive than this!

[johan.degreef]

@Anonymous @ryan @Neil_Cross @tschaeferZNBXX 

I'll bump this question again.

Are items today, still as terrible as discribed 5 yrs ago?

If you should start with a new Vault, would you choose today for the Items way or leave it behind and just go with the files....

Are there other reason than items why one should use pro instead of workgroups?

The reason why I choose for pro was the possibility to add ERP integration in the future, but it might have been a wrong one?

BR, Johan

[miles.van-der-lugt]

Johan, did you ever get a reply to this question?
I see the need for both Items and Files in our organization but if Items are still as disconnected as this thread has indicated I will just use a File workflow.
TIA
Miles

[johan.degreef]

No I did not...

I see it as. Do you need your inventor (property) data flow to an ERP system, you should use ITEMS, if not you can use items to add non cad stuff to your BOM's like paint, grease, etc