Why should we trust Autodesk? (pricing, subscription, licensing)

[colinSRA]

Autodesk is currently telling its customers:

   "…we’ll help you transition to a plan for named users through trade-in offers that keep your costs consistent today and predictable to 2028"

In 2020, how can we be sure of this?  8 years is a long time.

Autodesk has made numerous changes to licensing/pricing/subscription just in the past few years. Why wouldn’t things change again in 2023? Or 2024?

  - Perpetual licenses switched to more expensive Desktop Subscriptions.

  - Design Suites switched to more expensive Collections.

  - Multi-User subscriptions are going away completely.

  - Maintenance costs are increasing substantially (we were told differently last year, in the “Move to Subscription” FAQ dated April 2019).

  - Maintenance licenses are going away completely (we were told differently last year, in the “Move to Subscription” FAQ dated April 2019).

Does Autodesk expect these latest changes to improve their reputation with longtime customers?

I can’t help but think:  You're more than a serial number to us. You’re also a credit card number…

[AllenJessup]

OK. I won't say Autodesk doesn't change things. I've already asked what's going to happen in another 2 years. But as far as pricing goes. I've gone for every one of the deals over the past 20+ years. And they've never reneged on the pricing. For new seats the prices have gone up. But when we go for this 2:1 trade in. I'll be paying $2,000 a year less for 10 seats of the huge AEC Collection than I was paying 20 years ago for 6 seats of Civil 3D.

There is going to be fine tuning over the next few years (read "changes") but they may be for the better. Some things look promising.

[amanda.k]

Hi @colinSRA - 

I wanted to reply and say we hear you on your concerns.  I’m not trying to change your mind, but did want to offer a little clarity /  reassurance on certain points you made.

8 years is indeed a long time. Technology is moving and changing at lightning speed it seems. We’re keeping up by divesting from plans that still rely on serial numbers and adopting the industry standard named user model that most of our customers prefer This will enable us to deliver you a more relevant experience in the future -think of the Microsoft Office 365 experience – you can share files seamlessly, get data on who you’re collaborating with, and receive tips based on the features you use the most.

In as far as the cost prices - trade-in offers will keep your costs consistent today and predictable to 2028, while you get more value from product usage reporting and administration ease.

Again, we hear you and sincerely appreciate the feedback. Please let us know if there’s any other specific issues you’d want clarification on.

[jacob]

that lower price for more seats is only for the first year

the second year you are now paying twice the licence fees for the 2:1 seat ratio (presuming you keep them all)

so basically they are giving you something for free for 12 months and then you have to pay twice as much as before

i can only imagine, once everyone is on 1:1 subscription. up go the prices again.......

[AllenJessup]

That's not the way I read it. But I'm going to verify that. It's an important point.

[amanda.k]

Hi @jacob, 

To clarify, you will keep your ongoing discount past that first year - the price will increase no more than 5% every other year to 2028*. Your renewal price will not increase to the Suggested Retail Price for two single-user subscriptions.

Plus, if you are currently using a multi user license, the 2:1 trade-in is available at your first renewal after May 7, 2020 – regardless of what year that is in. You’ll have the same opportunity to take the trade-in at the same price in two or three years.

Does this present it a little clearer? I hope I understood your concern correctly, but if not, please let me know! @AllenJessup, the same goes for you - thank you so much for trying to get this question answered!

[AllenJessup]

---

@amanda.k wrote:

To clarify, you will keep your ongoing discount past that first year - the price will increase no more than 5% every other year to 2028*. Your renewal price will not increase to the Suggested Retail Price for two single-user subscriptions.

---

I think the question that @jacob  was asking is not if the price per seat will increase to the Suggested Retail Price. The question is. Are you going to have to pay the discounted 2019 price (plus no more that 5%) for each seat after the first year?

Let's say I have a discount price of $1000 per seat on 10 seats of the AEC Collection. Next year I'll turn in the 10 network licenses and get 20 single-user licenses at (potentially) $525 per seat.

So in 2022. Will I still be paying the $525 per seat for 20 seats or will I be paying $1,050 for the 20 seats?

In the second case. Our costs double at the second renewal. 

IOW: First case in 2022 I would pay $5,250 for the second renewal.

    Second case in 2022 I would pay $10,500 for the second renewal.

[kris]

No.  You should NOT trust Autodesk.

When the transition to subscription from permanent licenses was announced 3 years ago, Autodesk management swore up down and sideways that they wouldn't do the crap they're doing.  That it would be better for the customers.  As though paying more and getting less is somehow in our best interest.  Somehow, these two models were expensive to upkeep, and they're just raising fees to accommodate.  That over the three years, we'd see how much more value we'd get.

All of the promises made then, other than assuring the 3 year guarantee.  Now, 3 years (almost to the day), they kill the entirety of the suites they said they wouldn't kill, trying to force the remaining users onto the cash conveyor they planned for all along.

<Insert string of offensive language here>

Kris.

[stephen.d.green]

No, don't trust them a single step.

When they first introduced rentals, a video was posted where Maurice Patel said that buying perpetuals wasn't going away and that rentals weren't for everyone's situation.

There's even a chart which says that.

Then they canned sales of perpetuals.

And now they've canned even being able to maintain your perpetual.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7AZpZswJaA 

So no, don't trust them.

- Steve

[jacob]

no its not clearer at all

Please explicitly clarify 

Ignore my $ figure, to me its a just a number feel free to insert Actual $$ Costs.

keeping it simple, what happens here

I have 10 seats Multiser - (currently pay $1000 per year )

I use the 2:1 change over to get 20 User seats. 

For year 1  before renewal I change over i pay $1000 per seat  ie $10,000) and get 20 seats for 12 months.

For year 2 I now have have 20 licences, how much am i paying? 

For year 3 i have 20 licences, how much am i paying?

The 2:1 change over is only available to a certain date, after that it reverts to 1:1

[jacob]

exactly

and ive seen varying different responses to this question.

[lynn_zhang · Accepted solution]

Hi @jacob 

Thanks for your patience while we were clarifying with our internal team!

It's correct that the 2:1 trade-in offer is available at your first renewal only after May 7, 2020. However, you get to keep the ongoing discount with no more than 5% increase every other year until 2028. The 'discount' here is based on the half price you pay per seat with the 2:1 offer. In your case here: 

Year 1 (let's say 2020 is your first renewal): you get 20 seats with the 2:1 offer so you pay $500/seat, total price $10,000;

Year 2 (2021): you pay $500/seat + no more than 5% increase, so that's no more than $525/seat and total price $10,500;

Year 3 (2022): you pay $525/seat + no increase, so you pay the same total price $10,500.

Year 4 (2023) your price will again increase with no more than 5%, and Year 5 (2024) no increase, so on and so forth until 2028.

In short, your get double number of seats with the 2:1 offer but your renewal price will not double. You still keep the discounted price per seat with no more than 5% increase every other year until 2028.

Does it make it clearer for you now? Let us know if you have any further questions.

@AllenJessup Hope this clarifies for you too.

[AllenJessup]

Hi @lynn_zhang 

Yes. Thank you very much. That was what I was looking for. I did understand that from previous conversations. But I felt it needed to be in writing rather than by word of mouth.

Thank you again.

[chriswade]

Right, but we are in the for the long term, what happens after 8 years? Then our costs double (or worse) over the costs of network licenses.

[AllenJessup]

In the past Autodesk would never even guarantee pricing for one years. An eight year guarantee is unheard of. I'll take what I can get.

[lynn_zhang]

You're welcome Allen! Glad to hear it all makes sense now  And thank you for your input in the discussion as always!

[AllenJessup]

@lynn_zhang 

I'm revisiting this since I just got a quote for our 2022 renewal and see that the price has increased by 38%. So much for the only 5%. And this should be a 0% year.

[kris]

They do rely on the fact that most people won't notice.  I didn't noticed, but then I let my sub expire last year because I knew it was coming, and I won't be beholden to AD any more for their lies.