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Killing perpetual May 7 2020

Anonymous

Killing perpetual May 7 2020

Anonymous
Not applicable

Can someone help me out here.

Not really sure where to post this.

I own a perpetual Licence .

There seems to be nothing out there besides a mail I got from autodesk.

Saying:

 

"You are more than a serial number to us.
Thatโ€™s why we are launching new plans based on people, and retiring plans
based on serial numbers."  

beginning may 7"

 

It sais its killing perpetual licence renewals.

 

The question is that because I own a perpetual licence can they just take it away and stop it from working?

Or can I keep it and use it until it is unusable in the far future?

 

This is not like epic buying megascans and giving it away for free this is Autodesk which means this  was not created to benefit its users in any way, its just the last stand to kill off people owning licences.  Im looking to get a clear answer. CAN they stop the use of a perpetual licence right away or do I own the right to use it as long as I want to.  Ive started transitioning over to other packages but this will take at least 6 months to a year to become super confident in it. 

Any clear answers would be appreciated.

Thanks

 

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BurkhardRammner
Collaborator
Collaborator

hilarious!

Good riddance, Autodesk!

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Noren2
Advocate
Advocate

@amanda.k wrote:

[...] even if your perpetual maintenance subscription plan ends, you can continue to use and activate the last activated version of your product.

[...]

Autodesk currently supports re-activation of products after v2010 releases. [...]

[...] Why only v2010 and beyond? To quote the Previous Version Support Change Article, "The majority of our activation code generators are built on aging technology, some of which are no longer supported by the vendors that built them. Aligning product activation practices allows us to retire many of the unsupported generators which reduces risk and ensures that we provide the help you need."

Hi Amanda, could you clarify something that was brought up in this thread? Namely that according to official statements only three versions back will be activated from the year 2021 on forward, meaning that let's say someone who has (or decided to keep - I think there is also an option to choose) 2019 as their last version won't get that activated once 2023 is released (and moving forward accordingly 2020/2024, 2021/2025, 2022/2026 -> end of activation of any perpetuals ever).

Or did Autodesk manage to address the terrible problems with key generators that have become apparent recently or has hopes to find a better solution for the future? (It must be quite the struggle, as the reliability of these pesky algorithms seems to go down with newer version, rather than up. Must be this ever faster evolving technology that I can witness first hand within my Autodesk product of choice).

 

So joking aside: Are you actually saying that we will be able to use and activate the last activated version beyond the limits outlined above? I don't see any practical reason for not offering that and to plan accordingly in regards to key generators.

 

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rkmcswain
Mentor
Mentor
@Noren2  wrote:

Or did Autodesk manage to address the terrible problems with key generators that have become apparent recently or has hopes to find a better solution for the future?

I am quite fascinated with the fact that the lifespan of these key generators is somehow magically synchronized with the current version and three prior versions.

amanda.k
Community Manager
Community Manager

Hi @Noren2,

 

You are correct that according to the Previous Version Support Change FAQ that product activation for versions 2011 and later is available until March 2021, when product activation aligns with the Lifecycle policy. After March 2021 you are still able to use the older perpetual license that you have, however Autodesk will no longer be able to provide an activation code if a re-installation or computer switch is needed. 



Amanda Pruyn
Senior Program Manager, Community
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Noren2
Advocate
Advocate

Thanks for your reply, @amanda.k !

 

Did Autodesk ever provide a compelling reason for this course of action? Obviously it can't be the excuse of old key generators in this case, the investment in more stable solutions and their maintenance would be negligible across all products and it's clearly detrimental to any users still holding on to their perpetual version/maintenance, many of which will never switch to subscription. Additionally, Autodesk never provided any substantial support (not to mention development) for versions older than a couple of years on a significant scale and people are generally fine with that.

 

You will probably understand why this is seen as a move purely to strong-arm or scare people into subscription to Autodesk's sole benefit, and learning from the past, there can be reasonable doubt if any additional income generated for Autodesk will end up benefiting the people paying for it or that any promises are kept.

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amanda.k
Community Manager
Community Manager

Hi there @Noren2 ! Thanks for the additional followup. 

 
The official statement from the FAQ is below:
 
Why did Autodesk choose to make this change in their product activation process now?
The majority of our activation code generators are built on aging technology, some of which are no longer supported by the vendors that built them. Aligning product activation practices allows us to retire many of the unsupported generators which reduces risk and ensures that we provide the help you need.
 
Reading into your question and post though, I can see its more of a question / statement as to if Autodesk is encouraging people to go into Subscription mode- which, the answer is, yes. We are transitioning to subscription-based products, which offers customers a lower entry price, greater choice of tools, and the ability to pay-as-you-go. With its shift away from selling perpetual rights to using a specific version of software, Autodesk plans to continually innovate and improve its products & services, more tightly integrate them with cloud services, allow access from multiple devices at any time*, make them easier to deploy and manage, and reduce file compatibility issues.
 
Overall, we are aligning with the industry standard to provide the best service and products possible.


Amanda Pruyn
Senior Program Manager, Community
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Noren2
Advocate
Advocate

Thanks for your reply, @amanda.k!

 

The excuse in regards to older key generators obviously can't apply to future key generators. If Autodesk really did care about any "risk" associated with them (personally I couldn't care less or even see how that should impact me in any meaningful way), it would neither be a problem nor particularly costly to come up with a future-proof solution (and even providing offline activation for older licenses doesn't seem a very taxing task, to be honest).

 

Also I'm not denying that subscription can have benefits for certain customers, but for many that's simply not the case. Much was promised ("trust us", "give us a year), but in my case there is no benefit that would improve my productivity or ease of use at all. I doubt many people are against subscription as an option. So benefits of subscription aren't arguments against perpetuals or maintenance.

The only benefit is that subscription (for the moment) is somewhat cheaper than maintenance and that is not because subscription was offered at a cheaper price than maintenance, but because the price for maintenance was increased substantially. I remember when updates/upgrades were half the cost of maintenance today.

So we are offered to keep paying what we were (for a time), but only if we give up our perpetual rights, which is a horrible deal for me.

 

And price aside, any production advantage that subscription (and maintenance for that matter) has over a perpetual license in my case (3ds max) is because features were taken away from perpetual licenses, not because subscription adds any relevant value:

Previous version use: In my opinion basic rights in the EU
Backburner: Recently removed from perpetual

Unlimited render nodes for advanced renderer: Removed generally (probably to push cloud rendering, some cloud credits don't compensate for that)

 

Now it might be true that there are some advantages when it comes to deployment and admin for bigger companies (although I read a lot of contrary opinions as well), but that's not really relevant for many people and I can already access 3ds Max from multiple devices to the degree I need it. And in no way shape or form does some minor improvement in that regard outweigh the disadvantage that subscription would have for me.

 

Also, while the writing was on the wall, there was still a lot of disingenuity going on:

 

From this document, last updated 2019:

 



1.4 Will I be able to continue renewing my maintenance plan?
Yes, if you choose to stay on maintenance, you will be able to continue to renew your
maintenance plan/s on an annual basis. The cost to renew your maintenance plan/s in
2020 will be the same as it is in 2019.

Now I'm not expecting for this to last until the end of time, but seeing as people base decisions on advice like this, it's surely not reasonable to claim that "you will be able to continue to renew your maintenance plan/s on an annual basis until 2021" is a valid reading of this. The "annual basis" pretty clearly seems to refer to the renewal interval, not Autodesk shuffling the cards new every year.

 

From https://www.autodesk.com/products/perpetual-licenses

 

If you purchased a perpetual license for the products described in the list above, you will continue to own and have full usage rights for that license. If you are on maintenance for your perpetual license, you will receive software updates and corresponding benefits for as long as you continue to renew. You can renew your maintenance for as long as you want."

 

From this this interview and comments (this was 5 years ago, but at at time when people still could make the decision to buy new perpetual licenses, so they might have based that decision on this information and were encouraged to do so.) 

 

Andrew Aganost, then Vice-President and now President and CEO of Autodesk

" We have no plans to discontinue maintenance subscription plans for existing perpetual license owners."
" I assure you we have no plan to discontinue maintenance subscription plans for existing perpetual license owners."
" Our lawyers frown on me using words like โ€œnever.โ€ Do we have any plans to end maintenance? No we donโ€™t, and our current intent is to keep the program running as long as our customers use it. Just like we donโ€™t have plans to force customers to adopt subscription. If a customer wants to keep using their perpetual license, then they can continue to do so. If they want that perpetual software to be upgraded with the latest and greatest from Autodesk, then I encourage them to take advantage of maintenance. Keeping maintenance for our most loyal customers is the right thing to do."

I dare say it's not presumptuous to strongly assume that Mr. Aganost wasn't entirely forthright, there, and that they did have plans to do all of this.

 

Now I'm not saying I'm surprised or that any of this is unexpected, but obviously it's disingenuous, not with the best interest of the customer in mind and claiming it is just adds insult to injury. Also you can't expect everyone to go digging or keep up with Autodesk's latest shenanigangs. These documents and statements should be reliable.

 

Anonymous
Not applicable

Excellent synopsis!!  The question I have had for some time is about the retirement of an older version of the software.  If Autodesk will no longer provide an authorization code for "expired" or "retired" software wouldn't that indicate that their copyright should no longer be valid for that version of the software?  Seems like legally they may not be able to have their cake and eat it too.

 

What I have been proposing for some time is that if we are able to generate our own authorization code could they really enforce a software piracy complaint against the use of a software version they no longer support?  Let's be realistic, the upgrades they have provided in the last 5 years are so technically insignificant that I really wouldn't be disappointed to to go back to the 2017 version with the ability to install on as may machines (including the firms I do training with) as I would like.  In my eyes the incredible greed and hubris that Autodesk has shown may have caused them to shoot themselves in the foot.

 

In the 14 years of Revit/BIM training I have always advised that using BIM as a "weapon" as opposed to the true collaboration tool it was designed for is an effort in vain.  Trying to protect yourself instead of sharing tends to take much effort with little gains actually being made.  It seems that Autodesk may have overlooked this point.

 

The thing no one seems to see here is that nowhere in all the pricing structures does anyone from Autodesk state they will continue the yearly upgrade model that currently exists.  This means you may be "renting" the software for multiple years before receiving any upgrade.  Wouldn't that increase the cost per upgrade significantly?  After-all,  the reason they went to a yearly upgrade was to convince people to sign up for this ridiculous maintenance/subscription (old name) program as opposed to just paying for an upgrade when the consumer felt that Autodesk had done something significant that was worth the price of upgrade.  While this was an excellent way to convert most people to this maintenance program so the could continue to afford to develop their incomplete software does it still make sense?

 

Could someone from Autodesk please let me know if they feel their copyright is still in place for software you no longer support?   

 

Keep in mind it is extremely easy to generate your own authorization code for Building Design Suite 2017 which you will be retiring in a few weeks.  I have had no problem paying the "blood tribute" for the last ten years even though year after year you have given such a minimal return with the upgrade you released.  Often breaking more than you improved.  I am anxiously awaiting seeing if you have proven me wrong this year by releasing such an incredible upgrade I can't live without in your new 2021 release.  NOT HOLDING MY BREATH...

Noren2
Advocate
Advocate

Depends on what you mean with "copyright".

E. g. in the EU you should be able to crack a software that you own the licences to if Autodesk can't (or in most cases: refuses to or didn't care to prepare to) supply an activation code - to the best of my knowledge. Autodesk will probably disagree, but it would be foolish of them to force a decision in that regard and risk getting told off. Either way, act on your own risk.

Don't know about other places in the world and don't really know US copyright laws (in Germany copyright and licensing would be basically different topics), but I don't think this would invalidate their copyright in general and like above, I don't really think they'd come forward and say anything that might hurt them in the long run.

 

But, yeah, it's quite ironic they first pushed for the yearly releases and now try to get away from them again.

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Anonymous
Not applicable

So its time for me to renew. Either 845 GP for maintenance or 705 for subscription. Absolute disaster going up every year to lead sheep into a corner.  I've decided to kill the licence. Use my 2020 for a few years to swap to Blender and I bought a dog for the kids with the money I saved:)  over 10 years of support on this destructive relationship. Feels like a burden has lifted. Not an easy decision to turn into a reality. A shame really. I love my maya but Daddy AD got old and lost touch with reality. New generations are  rising fast and it aint using Maya:)

BurkhardRammner
Collaborator
Collaborator

I thought quite a long time if I should do one more post in this forum.

And I do it here, just to tell that I am learning Houdini now.

And after just some hours, I see that I should have done it lots of years earlier.

No joke, Maya ruined a big part of my life. In the last 5 years, I had to spend such a crazy long time for debugging and finding out that its nearly always Maya`s bug and its not my code. I went nearly crazy. It massively contributed to the failure of my relationship with the woman I wanted to be with forever.

Every step in my production led to some weird behavior of Maya, my project took much, much longer than it was planned.

And finally I had to realize that Maya is just programmed to bad, its not good enough for my purpose: molecular visualization with massive scenes, just forget it!

 

So, here I am, after 19 years working with Maya, creating a huge amount of nodes specific for molecular visualization and I am done with it, done with Maya.

Forcing us to a new subscription model where we no longer own Maya was the final nail in the coffin.

 

Anonymous
Not applicable

"@Splatterbaby, thanks for questions! To expand upon what @Mark.Lancaster was saying, even if your perpetual maintenance subscription plan ends, you can continue to use and activate the last activated version of your product (for examples sake, let's say AutoCAD 2020). If you were using 2018 and 2019 in addition to 2020, when the subscription stops, you must uninstall those from your computer. "

 

Hi there. So I ended my perpetual maintenance because AD. Tried to install 2019. It didnt allow me to. Back to what you said here after I end my perpetual maintenance subscription I am only allowed to use the last one like maya 2020. 

 

I dont understand this. I bought the licences. Do I not own them is this not the point of perpetual? I dont understand why I dont own these licences I bought through over a decade of paying for them. Surely this is thievery or something doesn't add up here legally .  I own them. Do I not own the right to use them.  Where in the terms and conditions does it say this in the old 2017-2019 terms and conditions does it say we cant use a license we bought. Perhaps Im wrong but please do let me know. aww man. Sad. Sad how a company like this keeps getting away with things like this. Does it ever think its hurting its users. "Your more then a serial number to us" aww man.

Ever seen that film that dude turns around and asks "wait are we the bad guys?"

 

 

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rkmcswain
Mentor
Mentor
@Anonymous wrote:

I dont understand this. I bought the licences. Do I not own them is this not the point of perpetual? I dont understand why I dont own these licences I bought through over a decade of paying for them. Surely this is thievery or something doesn't add up here legally .  I own them. Do I not own the right to use them.  Where in the terms and conditions does it say this in the old 2017-2019 terms and conditions does it say we cant use a license we bought. Perhaps Im wrong but please do let me know. aww man.

You need to look at the big picture here. Sure you paid money for a perpetual license, but now Autodesk is saying too bad, we want everyone on an annual rental plan. So what are you going to do? Autodesk bets you (and everyone else) are not going to do anything, hence this is how they are able to do this. Want to take them to court? Go for it. They can outspend you in the courtroom. This is how business is done in the world today. Don't like it? Switch vendors is about all you can do.

 

Cheers.

 

 

chronopsis2
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

@amanda.k 

"even if your perpetual maintenance subscription plan ends, you can continue to use and activate the last activated version of your product (for examples sake, let's say AutoCAD 2020). If you were using 2018 and 2019 in addition to 2020, when the subscription stops, you must uninstall those from your computer. "

 

- If I need to use the previous-to-last activated version (i.e. Maya 2020 rather than Maya 2022) due to system compatibility, renderer, etc., how do I go about ensuring that that previous version will be the one I can use? We tried activating Maya 2022 but cannot use it with our system going forward, and have since uninstalled it. Our maintenance subscription plan ends in a few days.

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amanda.k
Community Manager
Community Manager

Hi @chronopsis2,

 

Apologies for the delayed reply!

 

As I have moved on from the details of this project, and no longer have the latest information, I would encourage you to contact Customer Support to clarify the process.

 

I am also going to send you a PM with my contact information in case you have troubles reaching someone in time, since it appears your subscription might already be up and I would hate to leave you without an answer. 

 

Amanda

 



Amanda Pruyn
Senior Program Manager, Community
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40435322
Community Visitor
Community Visitor

So they smash the stable versions from the past and we can only use  the new versions which are full of bugs. I find this  threat because I don't want to switch to 2020+ because I already tried most versions and they are unstable. Looks like some big dog at autodesk don't know again what they're doing.. apart from chuck money in their own pocket. Yes, best solution is to switch to Blender which is already more advanced than maya or 3ds.

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chriswade
Collaborator
Collaborator

2025 is probably the most stable version I have ever used and that even includes the old DOS R10 days. 2020-2022 were problematic, 2023 had licensing changes and that brought about some issues, but once you got past those it was stable. 2024 was pretty stable, but 2025 is rock solid in my experience. The one caveat to note is if you are using .NET, it changed to .NET 8.

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