Dimensionnement poutre metal ajourée (PRS) aux eurocodes

Damien26199
Advocate

Dimensionnement poutre metal ajourée (PRS) aux eurocodes

Damien26199
Advocate
Advocate

Bonjour

 

J'étudie  un plancher métallique avec des poutres principales en HEA 1000, que je valide sans problème suivant eurocodes.

 

Vu les nécessités de passage de réseaux, j'ai modifié la section de mes barres avec une section créée dans l’onglet "Spéciale" avec les paramètres suivants :

 - Évidement rond d = 55 cm

 - Hauteur de poutre H = 100 cm

 - Plein entre évidements w = 100 cm

 

Je relance le calcul sans problèmes

... mais lorsque je souhaite vérifier mes sections, j'ai le message d'erreur suivant :

"Les barres n'ont pas été calculées car le type de profilé utilisé n'est pas défini dans la norme courante"

 

 

Je ne pratique pas beaucoup la structure métallique, ceci expliquant peut être cela...

 

Comment faire pour vérifier ces poutres évidées aux eurocodes avec robot ? Ya t'il un paramétrage complémentaire à effectuer ?

 

Merci par avance pour votre aide.

 

 

Cordialement

Damien
BE Perspectives
Répondre
Solutions acceptées (3)
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Replies (12)

Guillaume.Chazal
Autodesk Support
Autodesk Support
Solution acceptée

Bonjour,

 

Malheureusement, à l’heure actuelle, il n’est pas possible de vérifier un profilé ajouré aux Eurocode 3 sous Autodesk Robot Structural Analysis Professional.

Cela n’est possible que pour le règlement de dimensionnement acier Polonais (PN-90 / B -03200).

 

Cette possibilité a fait l’objet d’une demande de développement actuellement enregistrée coté développement.

Je vais mettre à jour cette demande dans la base de donnée afin d’augmenter sa priorité.

 

Un contournement possible dans Robot serait de créer un modèle RDM équivalent dans lequel les sections en « T » au-dessus de la réservation seraient créées et liées au reste de la barre par des liaisons rigides.

Avec ce type de modèle il est alors possible de réaliser une vérification des contraintes RDM à proximité de l’ouverture.

Voir ci-dessous + fichier joint à titre d’exemple.

 

1.png

 

 

2.png

 

 

 

J’imagine que ce type de contournement est envisageable lorsque peu d’éléments présentent des réservations.

 

Il existe sinon un outil développé à priori par Arcelor Mital (ArcelorMittal ACB+ 3.09) :

http://www.constructalia.com/francais/design_software/logiciels_pour_le_calcul_et_le_dimensionnement...

Cet outil semble calculer des poutres alvéolaires en acier.

A voir si cela peut constituer un autre contournement.

 

 

Si la réponse vous convient et que celle-ci a résolu votre soucis, merci de cliquer sur le bouton "Accepter la solution".
Cela permettra aux autres utilisateurs de trouver des solutions plus rapidement.
Merci

Cordialement

 



Guillaume Chazal

Damien26199
Advocate
Advocate

Bonsoir

 

Votre réponse croise assez bien ce que j'ai pu trouver entre temps :

 

Arcelor propose effectivement un logiciel 'ACB+ 3.09) pour dimensionner ces poutres, mais uniquement pour des poutres sur deux appuis simples, avec ou sans plancher collaborant, et avec 3 cas de charges. C'est assez limité en terme de modélisation, mais mieux que rien.

 

Dans Robot, en attendant qu'une implémentation soit effective pour le calcul, j'avais pour ma part imaginé une autre solution de contournement :

 - Créér deux barres en T pour représenter les membrures inférieure et supérieure.

 - Créér des montants entre ces deux barres en leur affectant une section rectangulaire plane, sans relâchements

-------> cela vous semble t'il valable ?

 

Dans l'affirmative, cela permettrait notamment de mieux gérer le solivage qui vient se reprendre sur ces barres sans avoir plusieurs niveaux de travail, plus compliqués à gérer dans un modèle 3D avec les bardages, les plaques, les chargements...

 

Qu'en pensez vous ?

 

Cordialement

Cordialement

Damien
BE Perspectives
0 J'aime

Guillaume.Chazal
Autodesk Support
Autodesk Support

Bonjour,

 

Pourriez-vous me transmettre une capture d’écran ou un exemple dans un fichier Robot illustrant le contournement que vous souhaitez appliquer ?

Merci

Cordialement



Guillaume Chazal
0 J'aime

Damien26199
Advocate
Advocate
Solution acceptée

Bonjour

 

J'ai réalisé un modèle "en échelle" qui semble fonctionner correctement :

 

Deux poutres horizontales, section en T, correspondent aux parties de poutre qui ne sont pas impactées par les percements

Des montants verticaux correspondent, section en Plat, correspondent aux parties de l'ame qui ne sont pas impactées par les percements.

 

Poutre 1.JPGPoutre 2.JPG

 

 

Les premiers résultats ne me semblent pas délirants, même si il conviendrait  de prendre le temps de les comparer avec ceux du logiciel ACB de Arcelor.

 

Merci pour votre retour sur ce modèle de principe.

 

 

Cordialement

Damien
BE Perspectives

Guillaume.Chazal
Autodesk Support
Autodesk Support
Solution acceptée

Bonjour,

 

Je pense que votre solution est assez similaire à celle que je vous ai proposée.

Elle est cependant plus simple à mettre en oeuvre dans ce contexte.

Je pense donc que vous pourriez utiliser la solution que vous avez trouvée.

 

Si la réponse vous convient et que celle-ci a résolu votre soucis, merci de cliquer sur le bouton "Accepter la solution".
Cela permettra aux autres utilisateurs de trouver des solutions plus rapidement.
Merci

Cordialement



Guillaume Chazal
0 J'aime

odo_structures
Advocate
Advocate

Bonjour,

 

A titre d'information, la CNC2M a publié en 2015 un guide de dimensionnement des poutres avec ouverture d'âme. En plus des méthodes de vérification, le guide indique les contraintes géométriques à respecter. 

Damien26199
Advocate
Advocate

Bonjour odo.structures

 

Je n'avais pas connaissance de ce guide, merci beaucoup.

 

 

Cordialement

Damien
BE Perspectives
0 J'aime

Anonymous
Non applicable

Bonjour à tous,

Je dois modéliser une structure avec des poutres de ce type et souhaiterais avoir votre avis sur un principe de modélisation.

Est-il correct de faire un mélange des deux solutions (liaisons rigides + poutres échelles) en prenant en compte des excentrements afin de faciliter l'application des charges (avec des bardages) et le calcul des assemblages ?1.PNG2.PNG

Au niveau de l'appui du poteau sur la poutre j'ai remplacé un montant d'âme en plat par un profil de type I pour simuler la présence de raidisseurs, pensez vous que ce contournement soit correct?

Autre question, il me semble que j'ai un petit problème avec les excentrements des tés inférieurs, est-ce moi qui ai mal paramétré l'excentrement ou bien s'agit il d'un problème de représentation? (fichier joint)

Merci d'avance pour vos remarques.

 

Cordialement.

GK

 

0 J'aime

odo_structures
Advocate
Advocate

Bonjour,

Si les ouvertures des poutres sont circulaires, une solution est d'utiliser le logiciel ACB+ d'Arcelor Mittal en complément de RSA. Les poutres peuvent alors être modélisées directement par leur inertie équivalente (mixtes ou non) dans RSA pour un calcul global  et la vérification des poutres elles mêmes se fait dans ACB+

0 J'aime

bedaney
Observer
Observer

Bonjour en effet c'est un moyen de modélisé correctement mais comment fait on pour verifier la barre? car si on définie toutes ces barres en une seul , le logiciel n'arrive pas à le justifier.Merci

0 J'aime

Anonymous
Non applicable

Bonjour,

Je pense qu'au lieu de plusieurs sous-poutres, on peut également la modéliser comme trois plaques minces avec ouvertures, liaisons rigides entre les plaques. Au moins, on obtiendra les contraintes Von-Mises. Cependant, l'inconvénient de cette méthode est que l'analyse de voilement local des plaques n'est pas encore implantée dans Robot. 

 

0 J'aime

Anonymous
Non applicable

Bonjour, 

 

Comment faites-vous une section en plat sur Robot?

 

Merci d'avance, 

Cordialement, 
Elise

0 J'aime

Saisir un nom de produit

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VK
We use VK to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by VK. Ads are based on both VK data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that VK has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to VK to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. VK Privacy Policy
Adobe Target
We use Adobe Target to test new features on our sites and customize your experience of these features. To do this, we collect behavioral data while you’re on our sites. This data may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, your IP address or device ID, your Autodesk ID, and others. You may experience a different version of our sites based on feature testing, or view personalized content based on your visitor attributes. Adobe Target Privacy Policy
Google Analytics (Advertising)
We use Google Analytics (Advertising) to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by Google Analytics (Advertising). Ads are based on both Google Analytics (Advertising) data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that Google Analytics (Advertising) has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to Google Analytics (Advertising) to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. Google Analytics (Advertising) Privacy Policy
Trendkite
We use Trendkite to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by Trendkite. Ads are based on both Trendkite data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that Trendkite has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to Trendkite to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. Trendkite Privacy Policy
Hotjar
We use Hotjar to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by Hotjar. Ads are based on both Hotjar data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that Hotjar has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to Hotjar to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. Hotjar Privacy Policy
6 Sense
We use 6 Sense to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by 6 Sense. Ads are based on both 6 Sense data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that 6 Sense has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to 6 Sense to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. 6 Sense Privacy Policy
Terminus
We use Terminus to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by Terminus. Ads are based on both Terminus data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that Terminus has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to Terminus to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. Terminus Privacy Policy
StackAdapt
We use StackAdapt to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by StackAdapt. Ads are based on both StackAdapt data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that StackAdapt has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to StackAdapt to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. StackAdapt Privacy Policy
The Trade Desk
We use The Trade Desk to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by The Trade Desk. Ads are based on both The Trade Desk data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that The Trade Desk has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to The Trade Desk to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. The Trade Desk Privacy Policy
RollWorks
We use RollWorks to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by RollWorks. Ads are based on both RollWorks data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that RollWorks has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to RollWorks to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. RollWorks Privacy Policy

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