Mesh not generated for cladding already loaded

[suifiltarik]

Hi all,

I modeled facades of high building with claddings to do wind simulation.

But first I tried to mesh my structure, so I applied some loads to the  cladding just to check how the mesh will generate, but it didn't generated at all in the cladding.

Is there any reason why this happening? 

My second question is: I am thinking to generate wind loads by wind simulation tool then I make the mesh is this correct?

Thank you in advance 

[Romanich · Accepted solution]

Hi @suifiltarik,

Cladding is a "meshless" element - you can't generate a mesh on cladding. 

[suifiltarik]

@Romanich thanks for the reply, but I found that they talk about cause why mesh it's not generated for cladding here 

https://www.autodesk.com/support/technical/article/caas/sfdcarticles/sfdcarticles/ROBOT-Warning-mess...

If not how can I model the facades ( glass) and do the wind simulation?

Kind regards 

[Romanich]

You can model glass using panels if you want to see stresses. Assign thickness, material, and mesh size.

[suifiltarik]

Hi @Romanich,

No I am not interested by design the glass, I want just to transfer wind loads to structural elements. 

Can I generate the mesh just for structural elements excluding claddings then freeze it and perform the wind simulation? Is it correct?

[Stephane.kapetanovic]

hi @suifiltarik 

Both cladding and mesh elements distribute applied loads. However, mesh elements allow you to retrieve forces, stresses, and other results, while cladding does not. Both support the same load distribution options, though in different forms. As Roman (@Romanich) explained, cladding elements are not meshed since no results are needed. If the element serves only for load distribution, use cladding. Otherwise, assign a thickness and type via an orthotropic function or another method.

If you want to see how the loads are distributed by the cladding, activate the option in the tables and views of your project.

How to check the load distribution generated for claddings or panels, How to modify the cladding load distribution direction, How to simulate slab that spans in one direction, How to identify and correct graphically automatically generated linear loads not applied to any obje...

Best Regards

[suifiltarik]

Hi @Stephane.kapetanovic,

I think the mistake I made is that I select all panels including claddings, then I generated mesh, it gives mesh incoherent in the edges.

So I will try to mesh just panels except cladding 

Kind regards 

[Stephane.kapetanovic]

"it gives mesh incoherent in the edges"

It's likely that you have elements which are close to each other but not properly aligned. You should investigate the geometric causes of this observation during the loading phase, rather than having to resolve it later during the design phase. The cladding has nothing to do with the inconsistencies in the mesh.

"Incoherent mesh on edges", Instability types, "Instability type 1", "Instability of type 2" or "Instability of type 3" warnings

[suifiltarik]

@Stephane.kapetanovic 

I checked, as I said it gives incoherent in the edges because I selected cladding, when I didn't selected them it works well. 

Nota : I performed mesh not analysis. 

Thanks again 

[Stephane.kapetanovic]

"I checked, as I said it gives incoherent in the edges because I selected cladding"

So the cladding isn't aligned with your panels, bars, and nodes. Would you like to share your model?

[suifiltarik]

Hi @Stephane.kapetanovic,

Sorry, you are right, it has nothing to do with cladings , it's strange I verified all the geometries and are perfectly connected, when I delete openings it works. I am confused!! 

please see file attached 

[Stephane.kapetanovic · Accepted solution]

Here is a report on points to observe from 0 to 10 mm. Indeed, the mesh errors are not due to the cladding itself, but to several panels that are not close together. By resolving these defects, you will have greater certainty regarding the integrity of your structure.

Save the report to your hard drive as it will be deleted in a few days.

report deleted

[suifiltarik]

Thank you very much, do I have to check those nodes individually? I have a 30 floor!!

I don't understand, is the geometry not correct?

Kind regards 

[Stephane.kapetanovic]

You need to realign the walls and floor edges. The issue doesn’t lie with the nodes themselves, but with the panel and opening points, the end nodes of the bars. If you accurately restore the junctions between panels, openings, and bars, the nodes will be correctly repositioned during remeshing.

If all 30 stories were duplicated from this one, it’s advisable to redo them all.

To reduce the workload while your study progresses, you can temporarily increase the modeling tolerance beyond the values reported. However, this may not fully resolve local connection issues between walls and slabs and could potentially mask inconsistency warnings, particularly as it might aggregate elements that are far apart, such as structural joints.

A practical approach would be to continue running other studies with a relaxed, user-defined generation tolerance on your main branch, while addressing the geometry properly on a separate branch, then merging everything once the model is clean.

The report is automatically generated by EXP. A light version is planned for the forum, but since downloads have not been numerous, I have postponed the release date.

For reference, I also publish ExtrudeLines a free application on the App Store that allows you to extrude lines and generate cross-sections by story.

[suifiltarik]

Bonjour @Stephane.kapetanovic,

Thank you so much for all this exchanging, but the problem is I don't see any non alignments of beams, walls and openings. 

I  delete all the openings and remodeling them snaping to just nodes but it resolve nothing. Also I remodeled all the walls but it still gives the same error. 

I don't have any problem to remodel all the walls from beginning if I can understand from where this error comes.

[Stephane.kapetanovic · Accepted solution]

In the report, select the nodes, bars, and panels, then zoom in to view any defects. The report provides the values, their locations, and a coordinate table. It is not always necessary to completely redraw the panels or openings; sometimes a simple modification is enough. It seems you are using the nodes to redraw the outlines, but some bars appear misaligned with the main axes. Be careful not to repeat this error.

To avoid overlooking defects, increase the number of decimal places, this will allow you to better evaluate your readings. Limit object snaps to only those strictly necessary. You must inherit pure geometry if it comes from another software program. You can also read panel coordinates using the coordinate rounding tools in Excel, which are available in the "Useful Apps" section. I do not recommend using macros for rounding in your case, but editing may be necessary.

Example with countour 2 at point 1, node 296 is at 2.002mm but also Object 1746 at point 1

=> 

Example with bar 1725 misaligned on y = 3 mm: in this case, move the ends of the bar, the nodes being supported by the panels.

 

 > 38.478 - 38.475 = 3mm

[suifiltarik]

Hi @Stephane.kapetanovic,

I've remodeled the cores from 0 with grid lines and I tried to make the geometry simple as possible, and it's working fine. 

I have an other question please, I would like to model the walls of the balcony, I would like to take count them in the stiffness of the structure but I don't want to mesh them, what kind of model design I have to consider?

Please see the attached image below 

[Stephane.kapetanovic]

hi @suifiltarik 

I haven't had to examine the entire project, only one floor so far.

When convenient, please open a new thread and share the complete model. Feel free to reach out to @Rafacascudo, @Simau or @Romanich.

Best Regards

[suifiltarik]

Hi  ,

unfortunately I can't passed the mesh step, every time gives some incomprehensible errors, I modeled the model just to see the wind simulation in Robot how it will works. please see attached the model

[Stephane.kapetanovic · Accepted solution]

hi @suifiltarik 

I hadn't seen your message, I checked this morning and here are my initial observations.

You should look at these panels first.

2344 2345 2540 2541 2550 2555 2557 2558 2889 2890 3743to4328By195 3802to3804 3949to4159By42 3960to4170By42 4036to4162By42 4047to4173By42 4136to4433By99 4178to4778By100 4233to4383By50 4236to4786By50 4267to4767By50 4270to4770By50 4281to4781By50 4284to4784By100 4428to4728By100 4434to4734By100 4483to4783By50 4852to5722By290 4855to5725By290 3762 3763 3871 3941 3952 3988 3999 4010 4134 4175 4176 4219 4222 4230 4238 4812 4815 4823 4826 4841 4844 5102to5450By29 5105to5424By29 5113to5403By58 5116to5406By58 5200to5374By58 5203to5377By58 5561to5563 5569to5809By60 5592to5919By109 5595to5597 5615to6092By159 5618to6110By123 5477 5547 5581 5589 5591 5616 5681to5690By3 5695to5707By4 5704to5716By4 5710to5836By42 5740to5818By26 5747to5945By18 5755to5757 5773to5803By6 5788to5824By12 5815to5947By6 5626 5713 5717to6050By111 5719 5721 5726 5782to5854By24 5842 5846 5848 5860 5866 5871to5913By6 5879 5885 5897 5903 5915 5921 5925to5949By6 5951 5968 5969 5971 5972 5979 5994to6043By7 6057to6099By14 6078 6105to6165By10 6120to6170By10 6185 6189to6192 6241 6248 6299 6329 6330 ...

Save the report to your hard drive as it will be deleted in a few days.

Best Regards