Flat slab on pile caps

Anonymous

Flat slab on pile caps

Anonymous
Not applicable

Hi there all,

 

I have modelled a basement slab on pile cap foundations. The thicker pile cap panels have been modelled separately and connected to the basement slab panel via rigid links. I have then modelled elastic column supports pinned in the x,y and elastic in the z but free to rotate in all directions. When I run the analysis, I am coming across two problems: 

 

1) At the interface between the pile cap and the the basement slab panel (where the rigid link is) there is a sudden change in moment from positive to negative which doesn't seem right. See below:

 

Jump in Moment.PNG

 

2) When I look at the support reactions, I am getting forces in the x and y directions which should not be the case as there is only vertical loads. See below:

 

Reaction Forces.PNG

 

Can anyone assist me with these problems?

Thanks

Tristan

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Rafacascudo
Mentor
Mentor

1- When you set direction as " automatic" you have to be sure what are your panels Local directions as Moment selected will be according to these local panel directions. In your case it is better to select cartesian Global X direction and select Myy . Then you can be sure that the moments shown for all panels will be on the same direction.

 

2- Are the sum of reactions on X and Y direction Zero?

 

If this doesn´t solve your problem ,can you send the model?

Rafael Medeiros
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Anonymous
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Hi there Rafael,

 

Thanks for your response. 

1) I have made sure that my panel directions are all the same and match with the global cartesian system.

2) Yes they sum to zero, but still doesn't make sense for there to be horizontal forces when only applying vertical load.

 

See attached test model.

Kind Regards

Tristan 

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Rafacascudo
Mentor
Mentor

1-Model you sent is different from the picture on your 1st post. Results for Myy look normal to me

Myy automatic.jpg

2- Horizontal reactions appear because you have 2 levels of slabs . Structure, then, works like a frame where horizontal translation is restricted at the supports.

frame.jpg

Of course , if you set the slabs at the same level horizontal reactions will disappear .

Also , due to the different levels ,horizontal forces are acting on both slabs and changing the values of all acting internal forces.

Below compare Myy with the picture above when the slabs are all at the same level

Myy automatic flat.jpg

On the model you sent slab and pile caps have the same thickness

Rafael Medeiros
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Anonymous
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My apologies, 

I was not able to share original model.

The main slab was suppose to be TH400. When you set the slab to TH400 and re-analyse. You get the following:

Jump in Moment.PNG

Is this change in moment due to the frame action?

 

What would you recommend is the more accurate way of modelling this? All slabs at the same level?

 

Kind Regards

Tristan

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Rafacascudo
Mentor
Mentor
Accepted solution

I would do it at the same level. With this thickness difference , The small 1500mm slabs act almost like a rigid block/fixed support for the 400mm slab . You can test changing their calculation model to rigid body and check that the moments differences on the 400mm are very small.

See moment diagram below

laje 400mm.jpg

Rafael Medeiros
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Anonymous
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Great!

 

Thanks for all the help Rafael!

 

Kind Regards

Tristan

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Rafacascudo
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Mentor

Forgot to say . Always remember to freeze the mesh after you think it is OK. It can save a lot of time during the analysis process

Rafael Medeiros
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ledinhchinh0409
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Advocate

hi. @Rafacascudo 

Can you attach the model here? Thank you!

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Rafacascudo
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Mentor

@ledinhchinh0409   ,  @Anonymous  model is attached on the 3rd message of this thread

Rafael Medeiros
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ledinhchinh0409
Advocate
Advocate

hi. @Rafacascudo 

I want to see the model in message number 6. I don't understand, how to build models for different thickness slabs but in your same elevation. Thanks you very much!

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Rafacascudo
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Mentor

model in post 6 is @Anonymous model . It is done with rigid links connecting the different levels panels . It is done in a way that the panels top surface is at the same level.

What I suggested is to model the panels to have its CGs at the same level.

Rafael Medeiros
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ledinhchinh0409
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Hi. @Rafacascudo 

Sorry for mentioning the old topic.

In "webinars" 05,  @Artur.Kosakowski advised to use rigid links to build models with two floors of different levels. I want your answer. Thank you very much.Capture.JPG

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marcelgadban08
Community Visitor
Community Visitor

hello everone, i have the same example of a flat slab supported by pilecaps.

my question is since the pilecap is acting as a large foot print for the slab, is there a punching shear that i should check between the slab and the pilecap cap corners? for example, slab thickness is 30 cm, pile cap size is 350cmx350cm. I see that the corners of the pilecap will behave as corners of concrete wall and punching shear should be checked in the slab. 
does my thinking make sense?, i would like to hear opinions about this, thanks for your time.

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Simau
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Mentor

Hi @marcelgadban08 

Punching shear will only be analyzed if there are columns or supports.

M. Agayr
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We use Terminus to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by Terminus. Ads are based on both Terminus data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that Terminus has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to Terminus to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. Terminus Privacy Policy
StackAdapt
We use StackAdapt to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by StackAdapt. Ads are based on both StackAdapt data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that StackAdapt has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to StackAdapt to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. StackAdapt Privacy Policy
The Trade Desk
We use The Trade Desk to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by The Trade Desk. Ads are based on both The Trade Desk data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that The Trade Desk has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to The Trade Desk to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. The Trade Desk Privacy Policy
RollWorks
We use RollWorks to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by RollWorks. Ads are based on both RollWorks data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that RollWorks has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to RollWorks to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. RollWorks Privacy Policy

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We can access your data only if you select "yes" for the categories on the previous screen. This lets us tailor our marketing so that it's more relevant for you. You can change your settings at any time by visiting our privacy statement

Your experience. Your choice.

We care about your privacy. The data we collect helps us understand how you use our products, what information you might be interested in, and what we can improve to make your engagement with Autodesk more rewarding.

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Explore the benefits of a customized experience by managing your privacy settings for this site or visit our Privacy Statement to learn more about your options.