Custom Database Shape Type Dimension Number References

[AnthonyMcTigue]

Evening All,

I spend a lot of time generating custom databases for complex, built-up and obsolete steel sections which frequently brings me into contact with that horrible section database interface that allow you to directly edit the pro.xml database files.  I have gradually developed a number of ways of dealing with this and figured out most of the parameters that need to be manipulated to define simple sections however, I have come up with a problem with complex, built up sections.

The screenshot below shows the help file for section Shapes 16 to 19 which is for double 'I' sections.

Link to help file below in case it's hard to read.

https://help.autodesk.com/view/RSAPRO/2023/ENU/?guid=GUID-37C90ACA-0068-46B0-9CE2-76DEF8EED292

As you can see, the diagram shows 1, 2, 3 and 4 which are self explanatory however, I cannot find any documentation that explains which fields in the pro.xml these dimension correspond to.  Does anyone have any info on this? 

Anthony

[CaioSaporito · Accepted solution]

Hi @AnthonyMcTigue.

I believe you wanna know this.

https://help.autodesk.com/view/RSAPRO/2024/ENU/?guid=GUID-BBDCC532-E4F1-4386-9DFA-FE2EC05B44C2

Best regards,

Caio

[Stephane.kapetanovic · Accepted solution]

hi @AnthonyMcTigue 

ID Identification number
NAME Name of section group
NAME1 Designation
DIM1 First numerical component of section label
DIM2 Second numerical component of section label
DIM3 Third numerical component of section label
SHAPE_TYPE Number of section shape type (types available in the Robot Millennium program)
MASS Nominal weight per unit length
SURF Painting surface (section perimeter)
H Section height
B Section width
EA Web thickness
ES Flange thickness
RA Fillet radius (web)
RS Fillet radius (flange)
GAP Distance between chords in the complex sections
SX Cross-section area
SY Reduced section area for XY-shear deformation calculations - when shear force influence along Y axis is taken into consideration
SZ Reduced section area for XZ-shear deformation calculations - when shear force influence along Z axis is taken into consideration
IX Torsional moment of inertia
IY Moment of inertia about the Y axis
IZ Moment of inertia about the Z axis
IOMEGA Warping constant (for thin-walled sections)
VY Extreme fiber distance from the Z local axis of the point on the positive side of the Y axis
VPY Extreme fiber distance from the Z local axis of the point on the negative side of the Y axis
VZ Extreme fiber distance from the Y local axis of the point on the positive side of the Z axis
VPZ Extreme fiber distance from the Y local axis of the point on the negative side of the Z axis
MSY Plastic section modulus about Y axis
MSZ Plastic section modulus about Z axis
TORS Section modulus for calculations of torsion stresses
SHEAR_QY Shear area (Qy)
SHEAR_QZ Shear area (Qz)
GAMMA Rotation angle from local to principal coordinate system (maximum values of section moments of inertia)
SYMBOL Vector description of section shape
A_1 Additional angle
A_2 Additional angle
HAS_MATS Indicator describing the presence of materials assigned to section (YES/NO)
MATERIALS List of materials assigned to a section
POINTS List of section characteristic points
IS_THIN Switch for indicating a thin-walled section (YES/NO)
B_2 AISC k design value /or/ Section width - second flange (I asymmetric section)
ES_2 AISC k detailing value /or/ Second flange thickness (I asymmetric section)
P1_L AISC T value /or/ Plate length P1 (cross-shaped section)
P1_T Plate thickness P1 (cross-shaped section)
P2_L Plate length P2 (cross-shaped section)
P2_T Plate thickness P2 (cross-shaped section)
P3_L Plate length P3 (cross-shaped section)
P3_T Plate thickness P3 (cross-shaped section)
P4_L Plate length P4 (cross-shaped section)
P4_T Plate thickness P4 (cross-shaped section)

Best Regards

[AnthonyMcTigue]

@CaioSaporitoand @Stephane.kapetanovic,

Thanks for your responses.  Is it possible to manually edit the pro.xml files to make more customised sections?  For example, I want to be able to make Section Type 19 (double I sections) with up to three additional top and bottom flange plates.  Is there any existing mechanism to be able to make databases of these types of section?

[Stephane.kapetanovic]

hi @AnthonyMcTigue 

an automation is faster and safer but it all depends on the scale of the configuration to be carried out and the time you wish to devote to it.

Best Regards

[AnthonyMcTigue]

@Stephane.kapetanovic,

Thanks again for your reply.  As I mentioned in the introduction, the nature of the work I tend to be involved in regularly means that I have to deal with built-up section so if there is a one-off time investment to make building databases of these simpler, then it would definitely be a good investment of my time so I would be keen to learn more. 

Built up sections are very common on older, heavy industrial and multistory structures dating from before welding was common and when it was not possible to easily transport and lift large steel sections.  There's still plenty of building stock our there that make extensive use of built up sections and with the growing move to repurpose and reuse structures, a feature that can assist with generating section databases of the most common built up sections would be incredibly useful.  I have been doing so for a while using a little fudge work with the shape types that are availalbe and they seem to work ok but it require a lot of extra validation using external software so it would be good to be able to reliably eliminate the need to cross check analysis and design results.

Anthony

[Stephane.kapetanovic]

corroded or consolidated buildings, welded or riveted structures, overhead crane track beams, cold formed thin sections... the list goes on. for everything that is parametric, you must have a minimum of sections of the same type to consider establishing formulas.

[AnthonyMcTigue]

@Stephane.kapetanovic,

Thanks for your answer.  Just looking at other options, is it possible to communicate with the section definition module in Robot through the API so that I could say feed the basic geometric information through to Robot, run the section properties calculator and return the results to Excel?

Anthony

[Stephane.kapetanovic]

Hi @AnthonyMcTigue

The section module is not accessible via the api. It is possible to calculate the sections from the lines and arcs of their contours, whether the sections are solid or open (middle lines).

Best regards