Revit MEP Manufacturer BIM Standards desperately needed!!!!

[jwinklerSB4SV]

By far the biggest obstacle to Revit's usefulness is that downloadable families are useless.  I have just downloaded a group of Mitsubishi Air Conditioners from their website.  Great!  They have type catalog to pick out the actual model numbers specified!  Awesome!  I go to make a schedule of the different units and despite the millions of parameters and encyclopedias of information added to each family parameter, the parameter names are CUSTOM and DIFFERENT.  Even when downloaded from the same Manufacturer!!!!   I can't even make a schedule to list "Manufacturer" and "Model Number"  because that information has been moved to various CUSTOM parameters.   Every piece of information I need is listed under some parameter in each family, but they parameter names are not in harmony, so I have to make my own column in the schedule and type it in manually.   CAN SOMEONE PLEASE create some kind of standard for parameter naming!!!!!!  Such a waste of information.  Autodesk I am desperately trying to convince my HVAC team to use Revit, but this doesn't help my cause.😣😣

[smbrennan]

As it currently stands, the issue isn’t just parameter naming. In order to schedule parameters, they must be shared parameters. So if Mitsubishi has a dedicated “team” to modeling their content, they should all be referencing the same Shared Parameter file. It clearly sounds like they are not. 

There are companies out there that specialize in content development that are partnered with various manufacturers. Unfortunately, they’re still somewhat bound by contract to do things the way the manufacturer wants them, but at least the content built will be consistent across the company creating it. 

There is a conference, I believe called “Building Content Summit” That attempts to bring all parties together to come up with a solution. They bring up very valid points such as “your model is not my model” - meaning an architect’s requirements for a piece of mechanical equipment is different that the requirements of a mechanical engineer, and they’re different from that of an electrical engineer. An architect may want an accurate appearance with proper materials for rendering purposes, while a mechanical contractor needs accurate sizing and inlet/outlet locations, while an electrical engineer needs to appropriate electrical data. If you were to build that all into one family, it would be ideal, yes. But when people are trying to keep file sizes to a minimum, it becomes bloated with unnecessary content for someone. 

All that has led me to believe that unfortunately, it is best for each company Designing in Revit to create the content on their own for internal use. This way you can ensure it’s built exactly how you want it. It sucks, but it’s the best solution without getting into custom API Development. 

[haymondj]

I suggest you use "Project Parameters" which can be standardized to your office and added to schedules as you build them (or placed in your template in your schedules).  A good intro is this video:  https://youtu.be/B8OFiIROnng

[RobDraw]

Not a Revit or Autodesk issue.

Unfortunately everyone has the freedom to make their own parameters as they choose. Most of the better manufacturers have schedules available for their parameters. You could say they are proprietary. 

There are 3rd party apps for family processing to suit your own shared parameters.

Ask about possible solutions instead of complaining and demanding someone else do something about your troubles and you will find out how others handle this. This is a user help forum, not the complaint department. That's down the hall to the left.

[jwinklerSB4SV]

Point taken. I didn't mean to vent, but I am fighting a losing battle against the AutoCAD gurus. I was embarrased having this come up during a Revit demonstration, while they all shake their heads and snicker. I will look into the 3rd party apps.

[smbrennan]

We get it, it’s an uphill battle. But don’t let anyone keep you from trying. It may take longer than you want but you’ll get there. I’m going through that myself for the past 5 years. 

If you are a contractor that’s fabricating in your shop, take a look at eVolve by Applied Software. One of their utilities is a parameter sync tracking your exact problem. 

also look into dynamo. Creating a script to take a parameter and push it to another is super simple. Dynamo is programming for non programmers. No coding required. Much cheaper option if you can invest the time. 

[iainsavage]

Its not an ideal solution but you can edit the family, import your own shared parameter and then associate the manufacturer’s parameter to your own parameter in a formula, reload family into project. Then your schedule will collate the various manufacturer’s parameter names into your one common parameter. 

[dgorsman · Accepted solution]

Show your coworkers this:

https://xkcd.com/927/

Something else related... at one point we were dealing with a client that had an embedded software rep for a specific program (not fond of that situation, but that's for another discussion).  The rep kept making a point over how their program fully implemented a certain ISO standard for technical design work, and that none of the other programs, like the one we were using, even came close.  Where he fell down was how much of a standard could it be, if no one else was really using it - especially since this software was no longer in popular use.  Standards are not always what you want them to be, and are not always the sand ardent in actual use.

In short, I'll echo what some of the others have said.  Establish standards that make sense for you.  Find suppliers that will consistently get close to what you need but always expect some level of changes.  Work with them if possible to improve what they deliver.  Build long term business relationships so you can influence what they provide.

[HVAC-Novice]

The only thing A-desk could do would be to include more -hard-coded family parameters. But with the plethora of mechanical equipment under one category, you would have hundreds of hard-coded parameters. And there still would be the need for custom parameters. 

Or they would take the ability of custom parameters away, which also wouldn't be good. 

Revit is a toolbox, the user can do with it what they deem necessary. Like if I give you a hammer and a nail... one person may slam the nail in a head board, the other person may nail it in his foot or in a door. 

I end up just inserting my own shared parameters. 

[haymondj · Accepted solution]

I like Project Parameters, because they can be added to the families in the schedule, and they can be transferred between projects using the Transfer Project Standards feature.  The only downside is that they cannot be tagged, so you cannot create a flow rate and then tag that value on the drawing.

[nmarcelis]

@jwinklerSB4SV 
I represent the largest wholeseller of sanitairy and HVAC in Belgium and I can relate and understand your frustrations. 
Issue like geometrical detail levels, wrong, incomplete or inconsistent product data.
A billion parameters everywhere.
Face based families when you're used to work with families that don't require a host. 
Symbolic Annotations that won't scale properly
Schedules no one understands....
Families that are 45mb large...

For what I see there are 3 big options:
1. BIM content aggregators like BIMObject, gets a handle on their Product Data. And enforce strict modelling practices.

2. Working with generic uniform BIM objects, that are directly linked with suppliers and manufacturers Product Data base or PIM.
An example of this is UOB (Uniform Object Library), ''placeholder'' families are filled with a productspecific object that the designer chooses on performace and other characteristics. As a result the Product Data and geometrical representation are modified. The ''placeholder'' families goes from a generic Family to a product specific family. 
This proces is based on the ETIM classification system, with which most belgian suppliers and manufacturers work. Linked to each ETIM classification is an ETIM MC (Modelling Class). 
For example a Toilet closet EC011289  has 3 modelling classes, MC000270 , MC000271 and MC000272 .
Each modelling class has specific geometrical propreties specified, and visually shown in a standard example .
Advantages of this workflow is that;
1. Objects are classified and interchangeble, (only the parameters change when selecting another type/model)
2. For design purposes, an engineer can specify requirements to which an object has to correspond (example boiler, natural gas, 45kw, condesing).
3. Facility Managers can choice spare parts by the succesor or another object that has the seem performance.
4. The industry already works with the ETIM classification and ETIM MC is an extra ''tab''.
This is an example workflow for a designer

The last option is for everyone to keep working with their in-house BIM object library. In which the larger firms already heavily invested in.



 

[Anonymous]

I found a project sample and how to extract professional MEP reporting in this course and how to extract duct and duct fittings in kg and count them together and more

https://www.udemy.com/course/revit-mep-quantity-per-roomprogress-monitoring-by-dynamo/

i reccomend it for all BIM and MAP engineers