Radiant Floor Loop Layout

[HVAC-Novice]

I'm designing a project with in-floor radiant heating tubes. Is there a good way to show the looping (spacing at different locations, loop lengths, type of layout like "serpentine")?

The only solution I came across to use a software like LoopCAD  and lay out the loops there and then export as dwg and link it in my model. Disadvantage is that it requires forth-back exporting and buying of a software. I tried the demo and it also doesn't lay out the way I want it (I want to lay it out so that in the future one could cut into the floor and only loses one loop)

There doesn't seem to be an addin or some other Revit function. Using lines and drawing it out also isn't an option.... unless I wanted to spend the rest of my life doing that for one project.

My other idea is to create areas on an area plan for each loop and then describe if it is a "single wall serpentine" ("or counter flow tubing layout") and if it has 6", 12" etc. tube spacing. and then have some details as example how that looks like.

for the actual design (determining spacing, flow rate etc. ) I use a manufacturer software. So all I need is a tool or method to visualize to contractor where to use what spacing, layout and what loop goes to what manifold. somehow being able to schedule total tubing would be great too.

[Purus_Cdds]

I am not sure. May be you can use electrical cables I believe. I can understand it wont make sense to add an electrical tool. But that is what we can do if we need it modeled.

The other way is creating your own family of radiant floor. That will make more sense. If you are good in family creation it will be bit easy...!

Let me know if it works..!

[HVAC-Novice]

I'm not sure if electrical cables will really help since they don't create the loops for radiant heating (the serpentine loops etc.). they would be like normal lines for that purpose. the same I'm also not sure how to create a family smart enough to make loops.

I attached a picture how the loops look like in schematic and they would need to be more detailed to go around obstacles etc.

[Purus_Cdds]

Please see attached. it works well with conduits...!

If you need more assistance please let me know.

[HVAC-Novice]

Thanks for your response.

I see what you are saying, but using conduit still would require me to literally draw each foot of radaint tubing. I guess uisng annotation lines woudl be similar effort.

What i was looking for is more an automated way. In a 20,000 ft²  space with 12" o.c. tubing in several dozen separate loops it owudl be hard to manually draw them.

The software LoopCAD kind of does that automatically and I was hoping to have a similar method in Revit.

Alternatively I can create an example layout of each method and use areas to show where what layout whoud be used where. but this will still equire an acutal layout plan for the installer.

[Purus_Cdds]

May be an advanced family will help on this.

Please spare sometime to get your first family. After that it will be easy forever..!

[CoreyDaun]

Perhaps you can create an In-Place model with as a Sweep Extrusion and an Electrical Connector (if desired). Using such a method, you can easily draw the Sketch Path in the serpentine shape and then apply a circular Profile. This will be pretty easy to modify later, if needed.

A more elaborate solution would be to create a parametric Family (which you could NOT assign to a system Category such as Conduits) that can be reused in other Projects. Such a Family could also be as simple as a Detail Item Family so you don't bulk up your file size by physically modeling all of the loops.

[dbutts7]

Yeah, we usually just cheat with radiant floor systems and draw model lines for the tubing...but try out the stuff from Metraflex:

http://www.metraflex.com/bim-3d-cad.php

they ahve some fittings we used to do the loops on another model. We also modeled the headers from scratch, was easier to do and reuse that way.

thanks - db

[HVAC-Novice]

Thanks. I downloaded their families and tried one of their fittings... but either I didn't pick the right one, or do it wrong. It doesn't seem toget me a loop.

but ultimately you still have to manually trace each foot of the loops, right?

Maybe I try to make soem sort of family with repeating pattern or so...

[dbutts7]

We placed a couple of runs with U returns, then arrayed the system together. Not as worried about maintaining the connected systems, although you could do this by placing the returns first, then adding the piping between the returns using the grips. There just isn't a super fast way to do this...yet...

[HVAC-Novice · Accepted solution]

I played a bit more with the LoopCAD software and it actually is a nice layout software and also calculates the flowrates, dT, pressure drop etc. I was able to do some fake-layout, export as dwg and link into my Revit project (s. attached screenshot from Revit) where it will tell exactly how to route what loop, how long it is etc.

There is no way I can create my own Revit family or addin to do the same thing. It would be nice to do in Revit, but this may be one of the examples where an external software is needed. So I decided to just buy that software, even for the one project it will save me more time than it costs. The manufacturer offers a free design software, but without graphic layout.

I think most designs rely on manufacturer layout. The danger is that layout may be done cheaper (fewer loops. wider spacing) than I'm comfortable with. and from my research with tubing manufacturers I concluded they will charge for the layout either by ft² or as % of material cost. So me providing detailed layout should save money somewhere. (no, I don't mean to advertise products)

I want to thank you all for the input. Even if I don't implement your solutions, it helped me making a (hopefully good) decision.

[dbutts7]

thanks for bringing up here...we had also used the ACAD dwg to plan view method when we first started doing these, but long term, I think it needs to be a system, so it can be accounted for, and coordinated for interferences...we really don't want to core drill through a radiant line...

I may work on a U fitting and see if I can get it to work. Will try to post here or on my blog (mep-cad.blogspot.com).

thanks! db

[HVAC-Novice]

You mean the coordiantion with all the stuff in the flooring (trench trains, man holes, floor boxes..)? What I try is to export a dwg from Revit with all the obstacles and import in LoopCAD. Then lay out loops around those obstacles, export as dwg and link back to Revit.

The problem will be when you add something in Revit (i.e. new floor boxes), then you have to do that over and adjust the loops. There still will be some field coordination for the exact locations or floor items... but the bid-package layout should then already be 99% correct.

Would it be great they made a Revit addin of the software to not have to ex-import dwg? sure.......

[dbutts7]

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@kschindel wrote:

You mean the coordiantion with all the stuff in the flooring (trench trains, man holes, floor boxes..)? What I try is to export a dwg from Revit with all the obstacles and import in LoopCAD. Then lay out loops around those obstacles, export as dwg and link back to Revit.

The problem will be when you add something in Revit (i.e. new floor boxes), then you have to do that over and adjust the loops. There still will be some field coordination for the exact locations or floor items... but the bid-package layout should then already be 99% correct.

Would it be great they made a Revit addin of the software to not have to ex-import dwg? sure.......

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absolutely - sounds like we did the same thing...I'd like a plug in as well, and make it a combo with a large fry and medium Diet Coke (grin)...

Wish I was better at writing code....hey, if you're doing HVAC layouts, you might want to check out HVAC Solutions, they were working on a new plug in that links the 1D system to the actual duct layout...not sure how far they've gotten...

thanks - db