Piping system makes equipment opaque

[evgeny.kurbatov]

I have a pump Family with clearance modeled as semi-transparent solid. It looks nice before I connect it to a piping system. After that the clearance turns to opaque solid.

Is there a way to keep the pump as solid and clearance as semi-transparent?

Thank you.

[dmiller_SCE]

Are you using any type of Piping System overrides such as applying a material to the type properties of the system?  If you are then everything connected to the system will inherit the material override you specified for the system. 

[evgeny.kurbatov]

@dmiller_SCE 

Yes, the piping system has the material assigned to show shaded graphics for pipes in 3D view.

[dmiller_SCE]

The drawback to assigning the material via the type properties of the system is that everything connected to the system will become that material. In this case you Clearance box is connected to the piping system and inheriting the material override of the system. If you want to maintain the transparency of your clearance you will need to remove the material override from your system or place a separate clearance box family.  I have provided a link that is similar to your situation. 

https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/revit-mep-forum/clearance-zone-graphic-in-piping-system/td-p/7726490

[evgeny.kurbatov]

@dmiller_SCE 

Thank you the reply. I understand that the opaque appearance is resulted by the material assigned to the system. 

Sending the question to the forum I have had a hope that the community could suggest a workaround. Or an Autodesk representative would find that such appearance works "as designed", but not "as expected".

We really experience problems working with piping system graphics conflicting expected equipment appearance. For example, traditionally a return pipe on single line drawing should be shown with a dash line. Applying this graphics override for the piping system makes mechanical equipment appearing with dash line. Often the equipment is connected to several system and its graphics changes randomly.  It is not good.

We are trying to cope with the problem in two ways:

1. Assigning solid line for piping system and applying Filters for view to show return pipes with dashed lines.

2. Assigning dash line for piping system and applying Filters for view to show equipment with solid lines.

A big disadvantage for both methods is that they don't work properly when we need to show "existing" graphic presentation. The problem is that the Filter overrides the phase graphics override.

All that is big pain for us. And now we found the problem with clearance appearance.  Quite long ago I came to conclusion that system's graphics override should not affect the Mechanical Equipment category. Maybe a proper solution exists and it can be generously shared on the forum. If not it would be nice if Autodesk take a look for that problem.

[RobDraw]

System graphic overrides are an easy way to assign graphics to everything on a system. It quickly brakes down when something is on more than one system or the user wants to override or take control of some the entities being overrides. In order to get the control that you want, you are going to have to drop system graphic overrides and instead use filters.

[evgeny.kurbatov]

> drop system graphic overrides and instead use filters.

Unfortunately Filters override the Phase graphics overrides. So I cannot properly see an existing pipe.

[RobDraw]

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@evgeny.kurbatov wrote:

Unfortunately Filters override the Phase graphics overrides. So I cannot properly see an existing pipe.

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Maybe my previous post was a bit brief but ^this^ is too general to be accurate and does not negate what I am saying.

The problem with System Graphic Overrides is that they are very global and very limited in settings. As soon as you need something beyond that small amount of functionality, you need to find another way of applying the graphics that you desire. Phase graphics are another global override. They are much more flexible than system overrides but not as flexible as view graphic overrides. Filters help you control the view graphics and are extremely flexible. The thing is that, with all that added functionality, there are a lot of ways to get the graphics that you desire.

It's a complicated system with a very strict hierarchy. Getting to know all the aspects of each of the tools and how they work together is essential to anyone that wants decent control of their graphics. 

[evgeny.kurbatov]

I know about the visibility override hierarchy. Unfortunately that knowledge doesn't help, I cannot achieve the result we need. Probably because of "wrong" hierarchy. 

[RobDraw]

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@evgeny.kurbatov wrote:

Probably because of "wrong" hierarchy. 

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Of course it is. Have you given up grasshopper?

[evgeny.kurbatov]

> Have you given up grasshopper?
I have no idea how to make him working for me.

[dmiller_SCE]

@evgeny.kurbatov  Can I ask what part of the existing graphics can you not get correct for the pipes to properly display while using filters? 

[evgeny.kurbatov]

@dmiller_SCE 

Let's say we want to see existing and new hydronic systems on a floor plan.

We have the following settings for the Phase graphics override:

As supposed we apply Hot Water Return system graphics (i.e. blue color blue and long dash line pattern) with filters. If so the brown short dash line defined in Phases will never appear for the view.

[dmiller_SCE]

@evgeny.kurbatov Are you trying to achieve something similar to this?

[evgeny.kurbatov]

@dmiller_SCE 

Thank you for the video.

Sorry, but you didn't replay the post problem: please try to connect the return water pipe to the equipment, and make the equipment belonging to the system. It should turn the equipment transparent clearance to solids.

[dmiller_SCE]

I did connect the equipment with the analytical connection notice in the video I tab selected the entire system to show that the equipment was connected to the system. The method that you are using will turn the clearance solid. I am showing you that you can achieve what you want for the most part by modifying your methods.

[RobDraw]

As long as you continue to use system graphic overrides and you want fully connected systems, you are going to have problems like this. Drop the system graphics and we can help you solve your other problems.

In the mean time, you can make your clearance zone a separate family from the equipment. Then it won't become a part of a system when the equipment is connected.

[evgeny.kurbatov]

@dmiller_SCE 

Can you attach the Revit project on your video?

Thank you.

[dmiller_SCE]

I did not save the file. I literally opened the default template from Revit changed the phasing and system overrides per what you indicated with your image / described and created two filters. I made the video and closed out.

[dmiller_SCE · Accepted solution]

To answer your initial question about the transparency of the equipment clearance box using your current method of applying materials via the graphics override is to just place a sperate family for clearances or construct your family with a nested shared clearance box family. Using the nested family method will only the placement of a single-family opposed to placing two families.