Panel Schedules & Circuiting in Multi-Phase Projects

[RJServoss]

How do I circuit items in multi-phase projects when items that get demolished have the circuiting removed from the project completely?

I'm hoping that not acutally demolishing the items in the future phases and instead managing the grahpics and visibiliity of them through filters and creating duplicate objects to populate the panel schedules is not the solution to this.

[smbrennan]

I have you dealt with Revit's phasing feature? I have yet to deal with it, so I could be completely wrong on this. But, from what I know, an object doesn't really get deleted once a current phase is past. As a user, you can control when previous phases are complete and become Existing. Revit also includes the ability to specify a Phase Filter per view, and there are Graphic Overrides via the Phasing menu. 

Here's a blog on Phasing:

http://bim4scottc.blogspot.com/2012/03/phasing-phase-filter-and-phase.html

And here's a video:

[RJServoss]

Shawn,

Thanks for your input. The problem is that when an object is demolished, the circuiting is disconnected. Panel schedules only show the end product. They do not show how things are circuited throughout a multi-phase process. There are workarounds...One of which is to not use Revit panel schedules at all (our current method). Another is to not demo these objects and instead manage the graphics and visibiliity of them through filters and then create duplicate objects to populate the panel schedules. Either way, we're not getting a very functional solution to the problem.

[smbrennan]

Ok, after some bried testing, I see what you mean. As soon as an item is flagged as being demolished in any phase, it can no longer be assigned to a power circuit.

What about editing the families your own project parameter for Demo? This would allow you to not only circuit the devices, but also create graphic overrides for those elements.

In the mean time, unless someone else has a better suggestion/workaround, I suggest you follow my link below to provide feedback to Autodesk regarding this issue. They track every single issue, and the more people that mention a problem, the more likely they are to fix it.

[CoreyDaun]

This has been an issue since day 1 and continues to be so, though this has mostly affected the Mechanical/Piping aspects of Revit because the demolished elements cannot belong to a Duct/Pipe System or even be actually connected with any other elements (even other demo'd elements). The same is true for Conduit and Cable Tray. I strongly suggest using the Feedback link to voice your concerns about this issue - use examples and be specific in the description. (The link is in Shawn's signature and at the bottom of this post.)

There are two work-arounds available:

a.) Do not use Revit to create the existing Circuits and Schedules. There is more than one way to create the Panel Schedules outside of Revit, but all will require manual work and the Panel Schedules will not be able to interact with Revit's database.

If you are intending to represent the existing conditions with your Panel Schedules, then perhaps you can create them along with all Circuiting, and then save the Model as an existing file, since the existing condition should not be likely to change. In the main model, you can mark those elements as Demo and then in the existing model, you can create the Panel Schedules and then create an image of the Schedule Graphics and export/import them into the main model.

Another possible option, if you wish to keep the work in Revit, would be to create 'dummy' elements for the demolished panel, create Panel Schedules, and then manually create the Panel with SPARES and then manually override the load name, load, etc.

b.) Refrain from marking the electrical elements as 'Demolished'. This come with the obvious problems of Scheduling and the Phase Filter no longer applying the Demo appearance to those items. One would have to create a Shared Parameter (Instance, probably Text) for all applicable Categories, then manually enter "Demo" or "X" or some equivalent to designate said element as 'Demolished'. This Shared Parameter can be used as a Filter in Schedules in order to omit/include them in Schedules as needed. Also, a View Filter would need to be created to simulate the appearance that the Phase Filter would normally apply, and that View Filter would employ the Shared Parameter and have to be added to every applicable View.

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Autodesk Product Support

The following link is setup for you to submit feature requests, or feedback, directly to our Development group:

http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/index?siteID=123112&id=1109794

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[RJServoss]

Corey D.,

Thanks for providing further detail on the workarounds. Those are basically the workarounds that we've experiemented with. We currently use other software for our panel schedules and bring them in as images. It's not ideal, but it works. We then have tags that are associated to parameters that you have to manually input, that way even though the element has been disconnencted in a future phase, the circuit tags do not get overwrritten. I have already removed creating separate models for each phase out as an option as that would create more problems than it would solve, the biggest of which would be time. Making phasing related changes to the plans would be way too time consuming.

As for the issues with mechanical and piping; I have not found them to be as big of a problem as the electrical circuiting, mostly because that's the discipline I work in most frequently and have had the most time to solve. The issues certainly are a nuisnace but for the most part the workarounds are much simpler than those required for electrical.

I'll post my comments using the feedback form as suggested and hopefully they'll prioritize some of these issues.

Thanks,

-Rick

[casquatch]

Plugging my own idea, but I know we all believe that it is something that should have been in Revit when MEP was added.

http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/revit-ideas/all-system-ed-elements-maintain-their-connection-after-bei...

Vote it up!!

[Anonymous]

Make sure to click the link from @casquatch above and then click on Vote it! This really needs to be resolved by Autodesk. They already have the user base monopolized so there is really no need for them to fix it. But just maybe if the votes get high enough they might actually do something.

[Anonymous]

If you're creating elements in phase 1 and demolishing them in phase 3 the only way you can accomplish this is to assign spares to the panel and manually fill out the names/loads, then only in the final phase create actual Revit systems for duct/piping/circuits.

Ideally they would just add Phase/Phase filter to system schedules the way they do for quantity schedules.

[BDezayas]

This could only work if Autocad will allow us to change the circuit load classification of spare circuits.  As of Revit 2018, I don't think this is available at this point.  I have not checked 2019/2020 yet.

[Anonymous]

Has there been any progress on this topic? We still cannot get a panel schedule to restrict its view or loads by project phase. I've been trying to make something work, but to no avail.

Using Revit 2020.

[candersonFG646]

No progress on this topic. We have given up on Autodesk to make any useful improvements to the panel schedules. We just put notes next to the schedules pointing to the circuits that have changes in this project. That or bold the text of the circuit line that is new or was modified.

[ryancX4UY8]

Has there been any movement on this?  would really benefit from being able to phase a panel schedule.  we are sending in a permit plan for just day one work, but our Revit model is through 3 phases, day one and two future improvements that may happen eventually.  Making one Revit for Day One, then another for the total project seems like something that shouldn't have to happen.

[BDezayas]

The only thing that has worked for us is either duplicating the panel via export to CAD and using those as the "temporary" phases of the panls, or create duplicate panels with generic jb's that were not electrically connected, and we only connect the final version of the panel to the distribution system.  We would put those in a hidden workset.  In the unconnected in the "fed from" section, we have had to add text on where it was fed from.  It would save alot of drafting time if we could assign circuit types instead of only spares so we don't have to create so many temp junction boxes.