New to Revit - piping

[JohnHolder]

i have been using Inventor and Plant 3d for years.

I've been told many times by people that Revit can do piping for what I'm doing quite easily.  I'm really interested in the live documentation.  with P3D, if I make changes in piping, I have to manually update each and every ortho view for documentation and that can take AGES.

The issue, is that out of the box revit lacks the piping I need.  I have a massive catalog in P3D, but there is no realistic way to get it over.

I've been looking for HDPE families, and a full sch 40 pvc family catalog, but nothing.  The one that I sort of found isn't correct and now I'm completely lost.

I can import Inventor into Revit - no problem. Now I just want to do the piping, virtually nothing else.

but it's been an exercise in frustration so far.  Maybe I'm just not googling the right words?

Anyone able to point me in the right direction?

[pkolarik]

Depending on what your needs are you are correct in that you'll find Revit may not have alot of the content you need OOTB. It didn't for our needs. I spent the entire first week after training doing nothing but creating (and correcting, as I found some of the OOTB content Revit had built-in was inaccurate) enough of the content for our needs that I could at least get started on project work.

My best advice to you is if you can't find a way to import/utilize the library you already have from P3D/Inventor and don't want to pay someone else for content, get good at making it yourself.

[HVAC-Novice]

Some thoughts:

1. You don't need to model to the nth degree. A fitting you use for Sch40 can be the very same family as the one for copper or Sch80. If you need to schedule each type, you just create more types. but the actual 3D family does NOT need to be different as long as it looks approximately the same. 
2. Revit is a tool box, not a carpenter. A box with hammer, screwdriver and glue still requires you to build the table. The oob families are just EXAMPLEs to get you started. In many cases you need to edit them (same for families from manufacturers, or downloaded from a forum) or create from scratch. A family could be something no one at Autodesk even knows exists. Your phantasy is the limit. 
3. Family creation and editing are an essential Revit skill. The better you are at it, the better the rest of the project will be. 

I don't know P3D or Inventor. But anything that is imported/converted into Revit has the risk of being screwed up, or requires more computing resources. Best to create in Revit natively. You often find, it is more work to fix an imported/downloaded family than just to create your own. 

[JohnHolder]

@HVAC-Novice @pkolarik 

So more or less, the bottom line is that I need to get good at creating the pipe fittings in Revit families for HDPE standard and metric.  PVC and uPVC.

Luckily I'm caught up.  I'm going to for now experiment with the piping in suite to get the hang of putting it into a project and see if it is working how I need it.  Luckily the piping I do isn't complicated.  It's just the learning curve going from Plant to Revit and the vastly different styles of workflow.

I appreciate it.  

"I don't know P3D or Inventor. But anything that is imported/converted into Revit has the risk of being screwed up, or requires more computing resources. Best to create in Revit natively."

The equipment I'm not worried about.  But when I tried in the past to import piping directly from P3D to Revit, the issue was that the section and other callouts, ignored boundries.  so all the section views etc showed ALL the piping in the view - which of course made that impossible to use.

[RSomppi]

---

@JohnHolder wrote:

I've been looking for HDPE families, and a full sch 40 pvc family catalog, but nothing.  The one that I sort of found isn't correct and now I'm completely lost.

---

Many manufacturers are making their own families accurate to their specifications. Some even have software to help you with your piping. If you are doing strictly design work, you may not need that kind of detail but if you need to do accurate coordination with lengths and takeouts, obtaining/making fittings to exact size may be a necessity.

[pkolarik]

"A fitting you use for Sch40 can be the very same family as the one for copper or Sch80"

OP, be careful with this. I don't work with copper piping, as the piping I work with typically starts at 6" and gets larger from there rather than smaller, but if you work with larger diameter piping and your fitting lay-lengths are not accurate you can run into big-time problems when they attempt to install your piping designs in the field. For little piping, like most plumbing applications, it's not as big an issue.

[HVAC-Novice]

---

@pkolarik wrote:

"A fitting you use for Sch40 can be the very same family as the one for copper or Sch80"

OP, be careful with this. I don't work with copper piping, as the piping I work with typically starts at 6" and gets larger from there rather than smaller, but if you work with larger diameter piping and your fitting lay-lengths are not accurate you can run into big-time problems when they attempt to install your piping designs in the field. For little piping, like most plumbing applications, it's not as big an issue.

---

Yes, you need to consider the Radius size of a fitting (long vs. short elbow etc.). You can handle that with types (e.g. R=2D etc.) and need to use radii that are available for the type of material. But you can use a copper fitting, use the HDPE manufacturer data sheet, and make it look like the HDPE fittings (correct radii) and use the correct k-values. 

[JohnHolder]

I'm about done trying to model in revit.  It's so, how to say it.  so vastly different than inventor and plant3d, that It's just an exercise in frustration.  I'm going to import the fittings from inventor after modeling them there and see how that works.

[HVAC-Novice]

---

@JohnHolder wrote:

I'm about done trying to model in revit.  It's so, how to say it.  so vastly different than inventor and plant3d, that It's just an exercise in frustration.  I'm going to import the fittings from inventor after modeling them there and see how that works.

---

I don't know Inventor or P3D. But Revit just being different alone isn't a reason to say it is bad.

What exactly do you struggle with when modeling pipes in Revit? I find it easy. It sounds like the problem is your attempt to import or copy something from a different software. Revit is really good with things native to Revit. It isn't good dealing with items from other software. You should be able to create specific fittings etc. 

[RSomppi]

---

@JohnHolder wrote:

I'm going to import the fittings from inventor after modeling them there and see how that works.

---

I wouldn't do that. It's not going to help with your frustrations with Revit. It might even be more frustrating. You would be better off going with Revit fabrication parts. i would focus on finding the content that you need. You should be able to find something close if not actually what you need. Manufacturer families ARE out there. 

[pkolarik]

---

@JohnHolder wrote:

I'm about done trying to model in revit.  It's so, how to say it.  so vastly different than inventor and plant3d, that It's just an exercise in frustration.  I'm going to import the fittings from inventor after modeling them there and see how that works.

---

What to you mean when you say "model in revit"? Are you referring to actually laying down piping in Revit? Or are you talking about creating custom fittings/accessories? If you're trying to do solid modeling in Revit, the tools are basically the same (though not quite as robust, IMO) as they are in autocad, which Plant3d is a vertical built on top of. If you're trying to create content that actually has functionality built into it, yeah, that's different from plant3d.

Laying down piping to create a model is super simple, however.

[JohnHolder]

oh yeah routing the pipe seems okay - but the getting the elevations down will take some getting use to.

Trying to model the fittings in a family - that's driving me crazy.
For all the equipment that I use - Land based aquaculture - that's easy in inventor and export to revit family - still trying to see how the workflow goes.  Export a large file with everything in it, or break it up, and to what degree.

But making the pipe fittings etc.  That's frustrating.

[HVAC-Novice]

---

@JohnHolder wrote:

oh yeah routing the pipe seems okay - but the getting the elevations down will take some getting use to.

Trying to model the fittings in a family - that's driving me crazy.
For all the equipment that I use - Land based aquaculture - that's easy in inventor and export to revit family - still trying to see how the workflow goes.  Export a large file with everything in it, or break it up, and to what degree.

But making the pipe fittings etc.  That's frustrating.

---

Keep multiple views (floor, section, 3D) open at the same time to navigate through the pipe route as you model. Setting up your routing preferences properly is key. 

What exactly do yo need to model for fittings? You just use the oob fittings and modify them as needed (different radii, thickness...). You don't have to over-model and include very bolt. 

Duct work modeling is a bit more challenging. not because it is worse, but you usually have more physical constraints to fit them in (compared to pipes that typically are much smaller in diameter)

[JohnHolder]

HDPE piping.  The catalog is extensive.  Even plant 3d -for sch 40 pvc and HDPE I've had to set up a good chunk of the fittings since there are no stock.  and I have to do it for PVCu and HDPE Metric as well.

i'll check the OOB fittings and see how I can modify them.

[RLY_15]

I'm regurgitating past suggestions here, but have you considered manufacturer content for specific piping systems? To my knowledge you can get reasonable HDPE fitting families via Victaulic, Valsir, Polypipe... PVC tends to be even more accessible in terms of content libraries.

[JohnHolder]

I'll go back and check.  I would still have to expand on them, which may be easier than trying to model them myself.

Even the spears sch 40 for plant 3d pack from spears is missing most of it's own catalog.

The pipe sizes I use are more than any catalog has unfortunately.

And everything I'm finding is metric.  Which is fine for projects off of north America.

I appreciate the responses, but I think I may just stick with P3D.

[RSomppi]

What was it about Revit that made you want to change to begin with?

[JohnHolder]

I do all my equipment 2d drawings in inventor - it works great.  But for all the piping drawings I do them in P3D.

In P3D - if you are unfamiliar - All the 2d Ortho drawings are independant to the 3d model.  They are snapshots. So, If I have 150 pages each with 4 2d views on it, and I change a few pipes - each and every view, has to be independently updated.   That can take between 30 seconds to 1 minute each.  Over a few revisions, this eats up quite a bit of time.

Revit, on the otherhand, is live.  Change the 3d model, the view updates.  And quite often the contractors use Revit for the buildings and BIM etc, and it makes the workflow a little easier.

Inventor exports nicely to Revit - though I have to fine tune the output a bit, smaller assemblies or larger assemblies etc to revit.  but plant 3d does not export well for piping.  The major issue is that the piping from P3D ignores all bounderies and view constraints making it useless more or less.

So for what I was planning, is to deal with documentation and piping with Revit, little to no drawing, except for the piping.  But it's so alien comparied to Inventor, Max, Autocad... the workflow just isn't working well expecially when I have to build virtually all the plant specs, PVC, HDPE for both metric and standard.  Yes there are some catalogs, but they just don't have enough fittings.

[sagnewYUXLR]

we decided to use fabrication parts for the piping, revit families struggles with pipes which can be a butt weld joint at one end and a flange at the other end etc 

[sagnewYUXLR]

Fabrication parts has a decent out the box collection and is much easier to model with (connecting fittings etc) 

                        

this is the metric download 

you need to build your database up in autocad but its imo its a far better way for modelling MEP services than families (especially if you are doing fabrication level models/drawings)

it's also easier to pick a fitting when you are modelling in revit