Nested pipework accessory family ability to have different colours

[m.latham]

Is there away anyone knows of how to have 2 different colour of the same nested pipe work accessory.

We are trying to create a valve set family where all fittings and accessories match the colour of the flow and return pipework. 

Screen shot below I have used object styles to change the colour of the extrusions but can not find away to independently change the colour of the IVs which are the same family.

The nested families need to be shared so we can add data to them with in the main project. We could do this creating 2 different family types and changing the object style colour in there but for COBie data we can not have multiple families representing the same thing.

[hmunsell]

Instead of using the Object Styles, have you looked into Filters. you can make filters in your model and apply them to views. Then use those Filters to apply overrides to the matching elements. 

[m.latham]

Hi Hmunsell,

Thank you for your reply. Filters wouldn't work as it would change both sides of the valve set to the same colour. I need the family to have 1 side 1 colour for flow and the other side a different colour for the return as per the test family attached.

[iainsavage]

Firstly, I don't know why you have modelled lengths of pipe within the family - is that how the components will be despatched to site with the Oventrop valves pre-mounted in pipe sections?

Normally I would just load the valve family into the project and place it wherever needed and then I would suggest using System Graphics Overrides so that accessories automatically adopt the colours of the system in which they are inserted without reliance on view filters.

Your valve family would then take the colour from the pipe system:

[m.latham]

Hi Iainsavage,

Thank you for your reply. That is exactly how we do model the pipework with systems so the colour is adopted on all elements attached to the pipework.

As per the original post this is for creating a standard valve set detail (which would be delivered to site hence the pipe drawn in the test family) that can be dragged and dropped in rather than drawing each one manually . We have been doing this with groups or assemblies which gets us about 90% there but with issues.

This is why I was testing a way to create a valve set as a family but have the flow and return colours on all elements. The family I attached was by no means complete there will be a lot more valves, fittings and a bypass to add if I could make the colours work.

[iainsavage]

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@m.latham  wrote:

We have been doing this with groups or assemblies which gets us about 90% there but with issues.

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I would have been suggesting using assemblies as the next option - what are the "issues" which prevent you from doing this?

You have a couple of problems with what you are doing, as you seem to already have realised:-

1. Nested families don't adopt the pipe system so they remain in their default colour and this is usually combatted by using a filter based on a characteristic of the family e.g. the manufacturer's name, family name etc. I can't think of any way to differentiate between the two nested components  to allow two different colours to be applied to the different parts of the host family.
2. Connecting the combined accessory family to both supply and return will, I'm pretty sure, cause your system connectivity and flow calculations to fail (?). Changing the family category to mechanical equipment might get around this but that would introduce other problems.

Personally I would persevere with the assembly option and try to resolve the "issues" which that is giving you.

Post back with more info though and maybe someone can come up with an alternative.

[m.latham]

The issues we have had with groups are

1. after creating in horizontal if we want them in vertical and try to rotate it doesn't allow. work around we have had to create 2, 1 in the vertical and one in horizontal. Pretty sure this is because of the frame that is grouped with the pipework is a generic model.
2. if we need to swap a valve set out and select from the drop down it will update in the orientation it was created.

Assemblies get us around the rotating issue.

1. issues with fittings disappearing when connecting pipework to the valve set.
2. same issue if needing to update the assembly. will disconnect from the system.

I don't think there is a simple solution around it and all solution have some sort of issue which can be worked around.

I was thinking creating the valveset in a family would be easier to avoid these issues and simplify for other users to avoid rework.

1. Can update the family and reload it wouldnt disconnect any of the systems
2. can add the flow and return connections so shouldn't affect the calculation but like you say could just set the family to mechanical equipment.
3. all fittings/accessories could be scheduled and COBie data added

Only thing is the colours which isn't really a big deal we could just leave it all black. I was just hoping revit would have a simple way to change the colour of a family in side another family. If there was a sub category option you could add to the nested family I think it would work.

[hmunsell]

sorry for the late reply, been out of the office 🙂

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@m.latham wrote:

I need the family to have 1 side 1 color for flow and the other side a different color for the return...

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if i understand correctly, you want the pipe on one side of the Valve to be a reflect "Flow" and the other side of the valve to reflect "Return"?  

[m.latham]

Yes as per the screen shot of the test valve set created as a family, one side needs the nested family to match the flow colour and the other the return inside the family.

[RSomppi]

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@m.latham wrote:

one side needs the nested family to match the flow colour and the other the return inside the family.

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Technically, this is wrong. Supply systems don't change to return at valves. That happens at a piece of equipment where the fluid changes state.

[iainsavage]

What they mean is that the orange pipe is supply and the yellow pipe is return and each nested valve should display in the appropriate colour.

The family then has Hydronic Supply and Hydronic Return connections and will be connected into two different systems - personally I don't think this can be done successfully with a pipe accessory family and it would have to be changed to mechanical equipment to allow it to successfully connect to two systems and still properly populate flow values etc.

[hmunsell]

Setting aside the "Nested Family" aspect of this... would using Hydronic Separation get you what you need? 

https://help.autodesk.com/view/RVT/2023/ENU/?guid=GUID-3A253E5B-34EE-4C02-B7AB-2C6F4E2F889E