Help on Tagging a Light Fixture

[Anonymous]

Need help on tagging light fixtures (luminaires) on REVIT MEP 2010.

[Anonymous]

Can you be more specific?

[Anonymous]

Yes, I need to identify from A1 (2x4 troffer 3-lamp) from B1 (2x2 troffer). In autocad MEP we just copy and paste to all fixture, but in revit do I need to specify on the properties what fixture type (mark) before I tag it.

[Anonymous · Accepted solution]

The best way to tag light fixtures and other elements that have large quantities (like air terminals) is to use "type marks" instead of "marks". You can assign your 2x4 3-lamp troffer with an "A1" type mark and your 2x3 troffer with a "B1" type mark. Once you have done this, all fixtures of that type will be tagged accordingly. To do this, select a light fixture (within your project) and go to Element Properties. Then click on Edit/New.... Select the family type and assign it a type mark. The out of the box Light fixture tag should be set up for type marks. I think the 2008 version and prior versions were set up for marks. Make sense?

[Anonymous]

See attached video....

[Anonymous]

Thanks, for some reason my tags are not showing.
I am working on my first project in REVIT, REVIT 2010.

[bvanallen]

Was this problem ever answered? I get editing the type mark (not mark), but what tag do I need to use in order to get it to show up?

FYI, I'm using Revit MEP 2012, but this too is my first project.

[abulla]

The out-of-the-box Lighting Fixture Tag should be already set up to read the Type Mark. If not, just edit the family as needed.

[bvanallen]

Thanks but that wasn't it.  The circuit tag was all ready loaded as the default (which I also want so I can't edit the family type). I found out I can change what get inserted as the tag by clicking on the Annotate Ribbon, Tag pull down arrow. I brought up a "loaded tags" button. Next I scrolled down to Lighting Fixtures & clicked in on the loaded tags list pull down arrow. Lighting Fixture Circuit Tag, boxed & standard were the only ones loaded so I clicked on the upper-right load button & searched for Lighting Fixture Tag within the Annotations/Electrical families folder. I changed it to that, and then went back and tried Tag by Catergory again. Now all fixtures I've change the Type Mark show up instead of a question mark. 

Next problem. I am using the same TYPE family for several fixtures with different Lamps assigned those specific instances. The Type mark shows the same for both "types" (A & A1). Trying to override just one by double clicking on it changes all of them too. How do I get it to show correctly for both instance type marks?

I'm still a newbie but it seems to me Type Marks are not the correct route to go. How can I insert/create a tag that looks for just the Mark of each fixture?

[abulla]

I'd say you can do one of two things:

1. Duplicate the light fixture family, and call it something else, 3-lamp or something (select the light fixture, go to Type Properties, click Duplicate). Then you can change the Type Mark for that new fixture without changing the rest.

2. Edit the family for the Lighting Fixture Tag to read the Mark instead of the Type Mark. I don't recommend this method though, as you will not only have to change every light fixture mark, but you'll also get the "Elements have duplicate Mark values" error.

[bvanallen]

abulla,

I though the whole idea behing having families was so they could be used in more than one situation, instance, etc. Otherwise wouldn't we just be back to using dumb blocks again?

Your option 2 is what I was asking for. I can edit the type mark for large groups of selected fixtures, limiting the number of times I would have to edit the mark. And I don't mind getting one little error prompt telling me I have exactly what I would expect to have either.

But I still don't know how to edit the tag to look for the Mark, not the Type Mark?

[CoreyDaun]

I agree with abulla entirely. Use method #1. If you resort to using the Mark value on an individual fixture basis, making changes and/or just keeping things straight could be a nightmare. It's very easy to just duplicate a fixture's type and assign a new Type Mark. If you are willing to take the time to go through and change the value for all of the Marks, then you may as well make a new Type and go through and change those Element Types.

Different Types are still part of the same Family. A different Type is just another arrangement of parameter values for that family. If all of your fixtures are pretty typical, isn't it better to control them in bulk than on an individual basis?

...But if you really wanted to, you can edit the tag family, and edit the label to also include it's Mark. That way, the tag will read the Type Mark and Mark as something like "A1", "A" being Type Mark and "1" being Mark. Not recommended.

*As a tip just in case it may be useful, you can create a View Filter that makes the original Type a different color, then you can easily identify which fixtures you haven't changed to another Type yet.

[abulla]

---

@bvanallen wrote:

abulla,

I though the whole idea behing having families was so they could be used in more than one situation, instance, etc. Otherwise wouldn't we just be back to using dumb blocks again?

Your option 2 is what I was asking for. I can edit the type mark for large groups of selected fixtures, limiting the number of times I would have to edit the mark. And I don't mind getting one little error prompt telling me I have exactly what I would expect to have either.

But I still don't know how to edit the tag to look for the Mark, not the Type Mark?

---

I really think you'll regret tagging the fixtures this way later down the line. To me, it makes sense that a 2 lamp linear pendant fixture is a Type "A", and a 3 lamp linear pendant fixture is a type "A1", a 1-sided exit sign is "X1" while a 2 sided is "X2", etc. If you use the default tag and just duplicate the fixture type, your fixtures will tag correctly with fewer extra steps involved.

[bvanallen]

Abdulla,

I partially agree with your reasoning but that means I'll end up with having to copy one family file type 2,3,4 (or how ever many) times for each variation within that family. Which will of course geometrically multiply the folder (drive) space requred, the file size of my revit drawing, and would add to the complexity of selecting just the right family name in the first place.

I agree a two lamp would be (Mark) Type A, and a three lamp would be (Mark) Type A1, but both would still be within the same (Family) Type of a 2x4 troffer. No?

It doesn't make sense to me that you would have to copy the same family file 2,3,4 (or how many ever) times for each variation of that same 2x4 troffer that MIGHT be used for one job or another. You couldn't mane each family file by Type A, or A1, or what ever, since type A on one job may not exist on a different job, but type A1 would (though it would be Type A on that different job). Confused yet? I'm still trying to figure out the name of the file still. I suppose I coud add to the name the voltage, lamps, lamp type, lamps watts, ballast factor, etc but again that would just add to the complexity of selecting just the right fixture's, now very long, family name (or dumb block in this case). I'm sure you'd be confused by now- I am.

Honestly, wouldn't it be easier & more effective to just use a single family and mass select groups of fixtures within the plan view for their property info (mark included). This would be like inserting one block in Autocad then copying it a bunch of times versus what you're saying by inserting a buch of different blocks (that look the same) for each instance- it's not effective in Acad and doesn't make sense to me here either.

Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't you have to do this "extra" step any ways after bringing in the family in order to assign it the correct Type? With what I'm looking to do, I would just be doing it for the Mark instead of the Type. In the end the tag would still display correctly with the same number of overall steps.

Please bear with me as I am still just trying to figure Revit out. Maybe I'm missing something. What exactly are the steps you use to bring in different fixtures of the same relative family? How many different family files are you using for this same family type (if say you have 4 variations of the same 2x4 troffer- keeping in mind you won't have these same variations on the next job)? At what point do you edit the family you load for the exact info you have? How do you edit that info any ways? I've watched the youtube tutorials & visited the wiki help many times, but is there sometihing else I'm missing?

[abulla]

First, don't worry about asking too many questions, that's what this forum is for . I think the confusion here is about how Revit loads families into projects. If you'll take a look at the first example picture, you'll see our lighting fixture library, I've highlighted the "Downlight - Recessed Can", notice that there's only 1 file in our library for this fixture.

The second picture is a screenshot from Revit, those are all the lighting fixtures loaded into that particular project. Notice all the different Types of "Downlight - Recessed Can". These lighting fixture types are included in the Family, BUT, they are unique to this project. Meaning I can rename the type to anything I want without affecting the file in our library. The example you posted earlier is a good reason why it's set up this way - You would definitely not want a massive library of different lighting fixture types of the same family.

Also, if the family is built correctly (Cooper, Lithonia, etc. have their entire catalogs available as Revit families), it will include an .ies file as well as a .txt file. This text file is called a Type Catalog, and it allows you to pick which Types of that Family you want to load into your project (image 3).

Hope this helps!

Edit: Oh! I just thought of another reason not to use duplicate mark values - Schedules. Distinguishing between 2 different fixtures would be tough in a schedule if they were the same family but different mark values... I think, I haven't tried it yet.

[CoreyDaun]

As abulla has said, once the family has been loaded into a project, you can manipulate the family's types without affecting the original family file. For instance, if you're in a project and know you won't need the 120V or incandescent fixtures (as per the example above), you can delete those type from the project, and it will not affect the root family file, thus keep the number of type available to a minimum. And, if you do decide that you needed these fixtures, you can just reload that same family in and restore those original Types.

If you have improved the family once it is in a project, you can right-click on in in the project browser and select "Save..." to export the family into a separate file.

[bvanallen]

...and the light bulb turns on. Thanks abulla and cadastrophe for explaining this to me so well. I had asked another guy in our office to download the rfa files but didn't know enought to ask him to download the txt files as well (I can't blame him & hate having myself to blame but I just didn't know- oh well, live & learn & mistakes are the best way to learn). Missing those txt files I wasn't getting the pop up for selecting the exact fixture type when loading the family, but after a re-download & test I can see you would be able to select a specific type upon loading it- that would be unique Type to that project- but still share the same family file. (your screen shots helped)

Yes, this makes more sense now than using the individual Marks.

FYI, I was able to create a fixture tag that looks for only the mark (and saved it as its own file name). I all ready had the Mark info inputed under the instance properties, and was able to tag all successfully. In the fixture schedule I was able to easily sort (and group) them by Mark. I think the end result took the same amount of steps and looked the same too. However, I can see that furture changes & editing could potentially be more difficult.

Thanks again.

edit: sorry abulla I had your name spelled wrong.