Can you change the scale of linked revit model elements ?

[AChiagoro]

Hello,

I am dealing with a linked revit model where I want to change the scale of the linked revit model elements. Is there a way where I can change the scale of specific linked revit model element (Data tags, etc.) without changing anything else ?

Thank you!

[RobDraw]

Not without editing the linked model. You would need a specific view setup according to your needs which isn't usually a normal workflow.

Best bet is to tag the elements in your model.

[Raeme.Wann]

In my case, it is the Security drawings. They cover a smaller area than I need the RCP to be. So the easiest fix is to make a separate view at the design link scale that shows those elements correctly.

I would guess that it is something with the annotation of their family. But it could be worth a try (for someone who has time) to see if the design link is cleaned out down to 3D elements if they will come in at the right size.

[iainsavage]

Tags (and annotation families nested into families) contain labels which have a defined printed height. e.g. 3mm or 1/8" etc.

The tag size in a view is then tag height * view scale factor. e.g 3mm * 100 = 300mm

Then the tag height in a sheet view is tag height in view / view scale e.g. 300mm / 100 = 3mm and the sheet would be printed at 1:1 scale (usually) so final printed size is 3mm.

Or if you print straight from a view rather than a sheet it would be tag height in view / printer scale e.g. 300mm / 100 = 3mm final printed size.

So if your tags are "too big" then either:-

1. the height of the label style in the tag is too big or
2. your view is at an inappropriate scale for the detail which you are trying to show.

Regarding (2), as an example, if you halfed the label size from 3mm to 1.5mm (1/8" to 1/16") then the text would only print 1.5mm high and might not be fully legible on paper.

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@Raeme.Wann  schrieb:

But it could be worth a try ... to see if the design link is cleaned out down to 3D elements if they will come in at the right size.

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3D elements in families should always all be built at their actual real world sizes and should therefore always be to correct scale - that's surely a fundamental principle of 3D design and coordination?

[Raeme.Wann]

Would this be the same with maybe model lines within a family? I remove all design team annotations once I have everything aligned. But with my past experience in architectural drafting I know that the main consideration is the particular sheet drafted. I am not talking tags. My tags are my own creation.

This is what the camera is coming in at. Design is the huge thing, I am the correctly sized camera:

[iainsavage]

I thought you were referring to tags/annotations because that was the subject of the original post by @AChiagoro.

[Raeme.Wann]

No worries and thank you! Your information will surely prove valuable. When I take it apart I will keep in mind the elementary ideas of 3D and try to figure out why the lines come in how they do. 

[iainsavage]

I know how it works in mechanical families but not sure about electrical, I don't think electrical has the same "Use Annotation Scale" option.

[Raeme.Wann]

My families all seem to work right for whatever view scale I use. But I use Model Lines and Model Text and not annotative objects. The unfortunate thing is these are linked model elements and there will apparently need to be further study. Thanks again for the discussion.

[iainsavage]

What I meant was that in mechancal families which use model lines for symbols, you can set the Use Annotation Scale option and the model lines will behave similar to annotations and then appear the same printed size on sheets regardless of view scale.

The highlighted families below use model lines as symbols:

I don't think electrical familes work the same way though, but I'm not electrical so hopefully someone else could help you with that.

The fact that they are in linked files shouldn't matter - linked elements should still adjust by scale as if they were in your host model. The images above are using a linked mechanical model.

[Raeme.Wann]

Yeah, everything I read seems to say I need to go into their model, re-size the annotation elements, save, reload. Would be fine if I was guaranteed to only have to do it 2-3 times through-out the job. Not always that simple these days. Seems Mechanical drafting (and prefab) is ahead of us in many ways, but we are going to catch up. One day. 

[robert2JCCH]

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@Raeme.Wann wrote:

Seems Mechanical drafting (and prefab) is ahead of us in many ways, but we are going to catch up. One day. 

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I'd say for this specific example that it has more to do with the original consultant not adequately anticipating downstream usage/workflows. This can happen with companies that work with very limited trade scope or are relying on very old families.

My recollection was that Equipment Category types like Mechanical Equipment, Electrical Equipment, etc. did not do annotative scaling, but that Device Category typeslike Nurse Call, Fire Alarm, etc. did. Regardless, model lines are modelled (they physically exist in 3D space), and symbolic lines are annotative (they only exist in 2D views aligned to the symbol's reference plane). If you want devices that are paper-size correct and not real-world correct you need to be on the annotative/symbolic end.

[iainsavage]

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@Raeme.Wann  schrieb:

I need to go into their model, re-size the annotation elements. 

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You are causing a bit of confusion by referring to model lines in families as annotation elements.

See below. 

The sounder symbol is annotation (nested generic annotation family) and stays the same printed size regardless of scale.

The triangle is model lines, NOT annotation, and does not stay the same printed size with change of scale.

The mechanical (pipe accessory) family is also model lines, again NOT annotation, but simulates annotative behaviour if the Use Annotation Scale option is checked.

So if the symbol in the camera family is model lines then it is NOT annotation and shouldn't be referred to as annotation. That's what caused confusion when I first replied to your post because I thought you were talking about annotation objects. Annotation objects will stay the same printed size when view scale changes, even if the annotation is in a linked file.