Attached Detailed Group - Error when editing Model Group pipes/ducting - Better workflow required

[pieterdewaal]

Editing pipe/ducting in a model group causes the current pipe/duct tag to error, requiring one to finish editing the model group, edit the attached detail group, deleting the tag, finishing. Only then can one edit the model group, finish and then tag the element again.

The error requires "ungrouping" the attached detail group if the previous workflow is not followed.

Does anyone have any workarounds for this? Example image is shown below.

[SimonWhitbread]

Don't bother adding the tags to a detail group - you may have reasons for doing so - but just "Tag all" and save on the headache

[pieterdewaal]

Unfortunately that's a no-go in terms of time efficiency. The hotel has around 400 rooms, and only 11 variations on the rooms. All services are modelled per typical room and each has attached detail groups.

Workflow in case of updates: Update the model group, finish. There updates 40 instances in ~5s. No need to retag. Tag all would definitely not work as it will be a nightmare to update visually... and since each floor is different in terms of layout (although typical rooms to remain), it can't be aligned on one level then pasted to others.

The only annoying bit is having to delete tags before being able to trim ducts/pipes together. Perhaps I should just post on Revit Ideas, allowing editing attached detail groups from within the model group editing mode.

[SimonWhitbread]

Doesn't sound like there's much efficiency going on if you have to 'edit the group, delete the tag, re-tag' each time there is an edit. Tag it once, tweak when necessary and pick up problems in placement on checking. You'll probably find you spend more time trying to force Revit into doing something, than keeping things simple.

[pieterdewaal]

The error only appears when ducting/piping that has been tagged needs to be split/joined. General movement/rotation etc. does not cause it.

Editing the tags takes ~15-30s and is more of an annoyance than inefficiency as the time saved is massive. I cannot see manually editing 15+ floors of hotel rooms by hand where I can spend the much more efficient yet annoying 15-30s and update them globally with perfect cloning of tag positioning.

Again, attached detail groups are very time saving when you have few groups and many instances (obviously not vice versa).

[pieterdewaal · Accepted solution]

Improved but imperfect workflow: Deleting the pipe/duct in the model group editor deletes the tag. Thus, it is more time efficient to redraw the pipe/duct than to delete the tag/retag.

[SimonWhitbread]

"The error only appears when ducting/piping that has been tagged needs to be split/joined. General movement/rotation etc. does not cause it."

This is your problem - if you split a duct / pipe, you now have an extra duct. Depending on where the split is, depends on whether the tag will maintain a relationship with the duct, and that's why the detail group wants to 'ungroup' - it can't function.

The simplest way to work around this is to not have the detail group attached to the model group,  From the image below:

1. Select the model group
2. Click on 'Attached Detail Groups
3. Uncheck the attached group
4. The model group displays without the attached detail group.

You can now edit the model group and once complete, repeat the above to reinstate the detail group. Of course, the detail group will not pick up any additions - you still need to edit that and tag the new, but at least you are only doing this once.

Deleting and remodelling though? Someone must have deep pockets! 🙂

[pieterdewaal]

Hi Simon,

Thanks! This works well with instanced model groups but not so well when there are multiple instances i.e. It would require going through 18 levels and disable around 40 instances of the model group's attached details per view in order to edit it (cannot disable globablly ie outside of views).

The project we're working on is a special case where there are very room types and instances on each level in the same location. The services and architecture for each room (400) is being modelled in separate groups. The passages where the service mains are running are exactly the same on each floor.

Normally, we would not use model groups to this extent; however, it has proven to be extremely time efficient for this project (1 week modelling of 400 rooms, fully coordinated). And with ceiling designs being constantly modified and ablution fixtures moving, having groups allow single updates which populate throughout the entire project.