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Retain Electrical Circuit/System Information After Demolition

Retain Electrical Circuit/System Information After Demolition

My suggestion is similar to this one, only focusing on electrical rather than mechanical:

https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/revit-ideas/all-system-ed-elements-maintain-their-connection-after-be...

 

When designing electrical systems, most of the time we don't get the benefit of starting from scratch.  The majority of our projects are renovations where we are reusing panels or parts of panels.  When we do this, we generally need to show the panel's condition (i.e. a panel schedule) at various phases (i.e. demolition and new construction).  The issue with using Revit to do this is that when a circuit element is marked for demolition, it loses any circuit information.

 

To show why this is necessary, my workflow for a typical reno project goes something like this:

  1. Get existing conditions from the site.  This includes where existing panels are fed from, where receptacles/equipment is fed from, how many breakers are on the panel, etc.
  2. Figure out what stays and what gets demolished.  Sometimes we'll demolish an entire panel, and sometimes it's just one circuit.  Either way, we need to show what's attached to the panel at this stage and indicate which circuits are staying and going.  At this point, we like to put a panel schedule onto a sheet showing the existing conditions, showing circuits to be demolished in bold.
  3. Design our new systems (place receptacles, equipment, etc. onto floor plans; schedule light fixtures; coordinate with user equipment; etc.).
  4. Figure out whether we can use the existing panels.  At this point, we have a schedule that shows which circuits are being demolished, so we know which breakers we can re-use and whether we're removing enough load to add new load.
  5. Create panel schedules based on our new system design.

Currently, the only stage at which Revit will allow for system calculations is the new construction phase.  In order to perform the first two steps of my workflow, I either need to hack something together in Revit or use our old method of panel schedules with Excel and AutoCAD.

Ideally, what I'd like to be able to do is create a panel schedule for the same panel at each phase of the project.  Just like I can create a schedule of demolition and new construction light fixtures/doors/other things, I'd love to be able to create a schedule of system calculations to show the state of the electrical system at various stages.

10 Comments
cindy_wang
Autodesk

Suggested by SmithGroupJJR-

 

We Need Phasing for circuits at Panel Boards in Revit. We have a project with 5 phases of construction but no way to show the Panel Board as it would look at each phase.
 
Example we place a Light in a space in Phase 1. That Space gets fit out in Phase 3 more lights and devices placed. I can not currently show that Panel board the way it looks at Phase 1 I have to see the devices I added to it during Phase 3 even though we aren't there yet.

casquatch
Collaborator
smbrennan
Collaborator

I completely agree with this. I also like to think that this would be relatively easy for Autodesk to implement.

 

First, associate Electrical Circuits with the already existing parameters, "Phase Created" and "Phase Demolished."

 

Second, give panel schedules the ability to display the items based on a specific phase, just like any other Schedule.

smbrennan
Collaborator

Often times, circuits are created and demolished in phases. This should be a possibility in Revit for proper documentation without workarounds. 

aaron.jonesSAP83
Advocate

Please refer to this idea here:

 

https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/revit-ideas/retain-electrical-circuit-system-information-after-demoli...

 

See if this accomplishes what you're looking for.  If so, please vote it up so Autodesk will hopefully stop ignoring electrical.

NateBrush
Advocate

I agree. I voted months ago. The idea you linked is stirring up a lot of comments right now.

 

I think part of the issue is Revit isn't programmed to see object logic over time and system logic over time. A panel is an object that can be modified many times. A circuit is a system that can be modified many times. Panel schedules should be a snapshot of how the panel object reflects the change in the circuit systems at any given phase of construction.

 

Our work process is similar.

1. Investigate existing conditions

2. Create a panel schedule and fill it with "Spares" that reflect existing breaker sizes. Replace "spare" text with "existing load"

3. FIgure our which circuits we will re-use, delete the spares, and assign new circuits.

4. Use the load calc to see new load added.

5. Use excel to calc load removed.

 

Excel integration would help some, but the real issue is phasing.

NateBrush
Advocate

Agreed!

bmiller111
Contributor

2019 and there are still no solutions for basic MEP renovation projects.

 

I am going to utilize Revit to create my panels and define size and space. Then i will export my panel schedules to excel (and import into our company P.S. via Visual Basic for applications) and duplicate the existing schedules to create a new work P. schedules. I am not sure if I want to re-import using Revit or just handle my panel schedules in AutoCAD, because the linking is quicker.

 

I have multiple jobs coming up that are quite large. if anyone has figured out a good workflow within revit to show demo plans/ new work plans please share. 

 

I am currently going to control everything with view templates and worksets. 

 

Regards,

BM

davidrushforth
Explorer

We sometimes need to circuit elements in a core and shell phase, then change the circuits in a tenant improvement phase in the same model.  If we need to republish core and shell sheets, the circuiting is wrong.  If the circuits could be tagged and scheduled by phase, that would solve the issue.

adbryson
Advocate

It would be extremely beneficial if Revit could incorporate Phases into the Electrical Circuits so that we can choose to display panel schedules in a phased sense like other schedules/views.  My Electrical users have a hell of a time dealing with multi-phase projects that are released at the same date and needing to have a phase 1 version of a panel schedule as well as a phase 2, 3, etc.  Usually they resort to using CAD versions of the panel schedule linked into drafting views, which is a terrible option.  We would then obviously need duplicate panel schedules for each phase.

For the most part, HVAC and Plumbing can utilize phases with little to no issues, but Electrical struggles at times.

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