Shared Coordinates "Acquire Only" Workflow in A360 C4R

[JADAstudio]

I have read that maintaining a separate site model is good practice regardless of the size or complexity of the project. What is the recommended workflow for establishing shared coordinates between linked "building" and "site" models, both hosted on A360 via C4R?

According to the dialog I'm looking at it is not possible to publish shared coordinates for A360 models (the radio button option is greyed out with the added text "Publishing is disabled with collaborating on A360". There is a hyperlink within the dialog to "How do I use an acquire only workflow with shared coordinates?" but it only takes you to the first page of the help site, and I can't find anything related to "acquire only workflow" in the online help.

The "Acquire" option is available, but that's really not what I want to do and shared coordinates still scares me enough that I don't want to risk it. (i'm in the site model, linked the building model, moved the building model to its correct location relative to the site. This is where I would normally publish shared coordinates back to the building model.)

Also according to the dialog,  "Changing linked positions is disabled when collaborating on A360".

So..... Is there a way to establish a shared coordinate system when both models are already on A360 or is this something I have to do before uploading them, and would that even work?

[SteveKStafford · Accepted solution]

As I understand the issue, Publish Coordinates is the only time that Revit has to be able to write (change) the external file. The current infrastructure doesn't support allowing that to happen...yet. They do understand it is something we want and need to do.

In the interim I'd still use Acquire Coordinates to establish the Master Site file, as usual. Then I'd link the building(s) file(s) and position them just like I'd normally do. I'd put location markers (a unique family for example) that allow me to figure out how to link and align Master Site in each building correctly afterward.

As I just mentioned, in each Building file I'd link the Master Site model and move, rotate and elevate it as required. Then I can use Acquire Coordinates and pick Master Site. This will pull the correct Shared Coordinates into the building model. I'd repeat that for each building. I'd do the little building position dance in Master Site even though I could probably figure out how to do the reverse (position Master Site in each Building) somehow. I'd find it a little easier to work out each building's relationship to the Master Site model this way, seeing them all together at the same time in Master Site. I think it is better context for the work to be done in.

When other trades get going they just need to link the Architecture model using Auto - Origin to Origin and then use Acquire Coordinates, picking the Architecture model. It's a cascading nested understanding of the survey coordinates, using Acquire Coordinates all the way down.

Site Survey > Master Site > A-Model > SMEP-Models

When they return their files to the architect they just need to be linked using Auto - Origin to Origin too. Technically if they do use Acquire Coordinates  using By Shared Coordinates would work but if they didn't Auto - Origin to Origin is reliable...as long as they understand it is important that they start out using Auto - Origin to Origin themselves, when they link the architecture model.

Hope this helps.

[JADAstudio]

Thanks, Steve.

I think I understand what you are saying with regard to acquire vs. publish and I can understand how the current C4R implementation does not support publish workflows. Disappointing, to be sure, but I get it. I seem to have zero muscle memory when it comes to shared coordinates (I have to re-learn it every time I deal with them) but this gets me started in the right direction. I appreciate your time.

Chris

[SteveKStafford]

Muscles...have to work em to build em 😉

I've written about the subject quite a bit over the years on my blog, here's a SUMMARY POST of what I've written...for future reference. Good luck!

[JADAstudio]

Ok, I'm getting more comfortable with the 'acquire only' workflow and have managed to setup site and building files successfully.

However, I can't seem to figure out how to make changes to the building / site locations once shared coordinates have been established, without removing all of the linked models and re-linking them. In a non-C4R environment this was farily straightforwars as one could create new building positions and name them, but that doesn't seem possible in C4R, likely due to the restrictions on writing to external files.

What is the proper workflow for modifying building positions (or creating alternate positions) when working with shared coordinates in C4R?

[JADAstudio]

Removing and re-linking the site model doesn't work since the model still remembers the site model's shared coordinates.

The "Relocate Project" tool in Manage > Project Location > Position appears to work, but doesn't allow rotation.

I feel like I must be missing something obvious.

[eschappe_flad_com]

I too am having issues with the same issue of rotating a building in which the shared coordinates between it and the master site file have already been established.  I am also working in BIM 360 and there is no way to rotate the building since it is pinned and there is no way to unpin it unless I remove the established coordinates, which defeats the purpose.  So I guess my only option is to move both the master site and the arch model off of BIM 360, do my move and then re-upload?  This seems like a large pain in the butt to rotate a building 2.796 degrees clockwise.

 

[SeckJ]

I'm currently documenting the procedure for applying Shared Coordinates to C4R models from my company.  Acquiring coordinates from a site or master model works to establish the coordinates, but as you've pointed out, you can't re-acquire coordinates.  I haven't tried this yet, but it might be a workaround.

1. Open the building model that needs to be adjusted.
2. Remove the site model.
3. Start a new Revit model using your project template.
4. Model something like a wall or floor and save the model.
5. Link THAT model into your building model using Auto Positioning - Origin to Origin
6. Acquire the coordinates from the new model by clicking the object you modeled in step #4.  (This should remove the coordinates associated with the site model.)
7. Delete the new model.
8. Re-link the site model, move it into the correct position and Acquire it's coordinates (again).

[eschappe_flad_com]

Yeah this is exactly the workflow I have had to use now.  The other strange thing that I have found from this, and I guess this is because I have always used the PUSH method or publish method for shared coordinates, is that when I go to acquire those coordinates from the master model I have checked out the project information workset in the master model.  This seems strange since I am pulling from that model, so why it needs to check that workset out for pulling coordinates seems asinine to me. I really hope that this workflow is improved in the near future because right now it is very painful.

[JADAstudio]

Is there any (new) way to change building / site position using acquire-shared-coordinates in C4R? Or is the best option still to use a dummy linked model to "clear" the shared coordinates and re-link the original site?

Edit: Actually, using a dummy linked model is not that bad and is certainly workable until C4R supports publish coordinates.

[eschappe_flad_com]

We have found that specifying coordinates at a point seems to be the easiest, since you don't need to "flush" the old coordinates with a dummy model. You just pick a point in the model that you know is correct and tell the other linked ones at that same point what those coordinates are. It makes me sleep better at night too because I can see with my eyes the numbers and how things are changing vs. having the black box that is Revit move things.

[JADAstudio]

---

@eschappe_flad_com wrote:

We have found that specifying coordinates at a point seems to be the easiest, since you don't need to "flush" the old coordinates with a dummy model. You just pick a point in the model that you know is correct and tell the other linked ones at that same point what those coordinates are. It makes me sleep better at night too because I can see with my eyes the numbers and how things are changing vs. having the black box that is Revit move things.

---

I like this. Thank you.

[andrewrider]

Does Autodesk have any upcoming updates in C4R that address this? The workaround with acquiring by point is alot more work if things need to **** position. Especially if you talking about multiple buildings with multiple linked models in each. The process of shared coordinates outside of C4R is very easy to setup and change. We need this capability in C4R! 

[Sonam.KhanH4MZ7]

C4R still does not allow to publish coordinates which makes the Workflow very complicated.

The best practice is to link all the building models in the Master File which has the correct coordinates and then publish the coordinates in all the linked models at the same time. 

In the current C4R workflow unfortunately, I have to open every building model one by one, link in the master file (which is not a normal practice) and then acquire the coordinates.

I hope Autodesk is listening to us and resolved this for us.

Cheers!

[SeckJ]

This is the best solution we have found.

https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/revit-products/learn-explore/caas/video/youtube/watch-v-di7zU...