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Separate model only for Sheets

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Message 1 of 16
gretabacalim
7490 Views, 15 Replies

Separate model only for Sheets

Hi all,

 

Here I am in a time in our project when one of our 5 models (we've already split the initial main model into 5 smaller ones) is beginning to be slow. The main problem is that it is the model with the most sheets so I was thinking of creating a separate model only for sheets.

 

I've never done this before so I feel like I need some advice on it. Is anyone out here using this method? What are the pros and cons? What should I know before I do this? Should I even do it?

 

Thank you guys! Looking forward to hearing your thoughts. 

 

 

Greta

15 REPLIES 15
Message 2 of 16
laurasmagin
in reply to: gretabacalim

Hi,

 

We work on Major Projects so our method of working is to ensure productivity.

 

We work with 'Model' , 'Sheet View' , and a 'Sheet' Files.

 

The model files contain no annotation elements other than hybrid 3D elements such as Grids and Levels. This is the file we do all our 'modelling', this file contain views for linking that are set with the view template to ensure all annotation elements are off. (This avoids clean up when linking files in a shared environment.

 

The Sheet View files contains the model files linked by attached. Here is where our production team do the work to prepare the views (Sections, elevations, plans etc. for use on our 2D deliverable sheets. Sometime these are Primary and dependants, so we again reduce the efforts by annotating only once.

 

The Sheet files contains all the sheets for delivery. The sheet file contains linked views from the sheet view file, this file is attached.

 

You can argue that you are duplicating effort with sheet views, but in my experience if you annotate directly on sheets files you will get orphan and tag loss, also this sheet file on major projects is a very heavy file due to all the federated models that make up our projects. This avoids abortive and repeated effort by the teams. Thus long term savings.

 

We usually have a model strategy that splits the project up. The Sheet view and sheet files bring all the federated models together to created the documentation for delivery

 

Hope this helps.

model, sheet view and Sheet Files.JPG

 

Give me Kudos or mark as a solution if this helps
Regards
Laura
Message 3 of 16
gretabacalim
in reply to: laurasmagin

Hi Laura,

 

Thank you for your amazing reply. This strategy sounds great and I really want to apply it to our project.

 

Now, considering the fact that we are at Stage 4 - Technical Design, a change like this would have a heavy impact on my team's way of working with the models and would slow things down for a little while until all the changes are done and everyone gets used to the new strategy.

 

Do you have any advice on how to avoid affecting the project's timeline while undertaking such changes?

 

Thank you again for your help!

 

Kind regards,

Greta

Message 4 of 16
MichaelRuehr
in reply to: laurasmagin

Hi Laura
How are you dealing with Loss of Dimensions and Tags when the object ID changes
In a live file, it tells me where I will lose Dimensions with a linked file just a summary.How do you avoid loss of annotation information with your workflow
Message 5 of 16
laurasmagin
in reply to: MichaelRuehr

Working this way we eliminate loss of tags and dimensions.

 

The only way we have tags or dimensions 'missing' is due to elements being deleted and/or recreated (hence ID change). We ensure our modellers know to change elements rather than recreate. Usually the new Revit users delete and recreate as they 'fell' it's easier and usually is the way they worked in CAD.

 

 

Hope this answers the question

Give me Kudos or mark as a solution if this helps
Regards
Laura
Message 6 of 16
laurasmagin
in reply to: gretabacalim

Hi Gretabacalim, I wouldn't advise changing your strategy unless you can determine the benefits out way the loss. Model and delivery strategies should be planned at the beginning, and unless you get significant benefits don't jump ship!

 

If you are experiencing difficulties due to latency, loss of data, productivity and file size issues then my motto is 'Take the time to make the time' Usually effort spend to clean house, while is time consuming, will benefit downstream by big wins.

 

As I don't have any idea to the scale, complexity or delivery schedule for your project I will give sweeping ideas.... (I hope that's OK with everyone!)

 

I would suggest you make the changes when it will least impact on project delivery, definitely not just 2 days out of client delivery! Maybe consider making the change during a project phase change, e.g. from concept to schematic, or schematic to detailed design etc.

 

Also if the client has a review period, and your project budget allows, take the time during the 'down' time.

 

Hope this helps.

Give me Kudos or mark as a solution if this helps
Regards
Laura
Message 7 of 16
gretabacalim
in reply to: laurasmagin

 

Hi Laura,

 

Thanks a lot for your reply. 

 

In the end I didn't do it. As you said, these things should have been done in the beginning and since I came along quite late, such drastic changes would be very hard to make. 

 

And as for 'Take the time to make the time'... I wish that would be possible in this project. I am working as both an Architectural Technologist and a BIM Coordinator, juggling between task while the building is being built ahead the schedule.

 

However, than you for you advice, It will definitely be useful in my next project (if I ever survive this one!)

 

Kind regards,

Greta 

Message 8 of 16
laurasmagin
in reply to: gretabacalim

Hi Greta, good luck with the project, sounds like you have a few challenges. Hope you do get the opportunity to set this up on your next project, Please do share with us all how it goes.

 

 

Give me Kudos or mark as a solution if this helps
Regards
Laura
Message 9 of 16
aharp
in reply to: laurasmagin

Hi Laura,

 

i wondering how how big your teams typically are. We have tested a similar set up with teams around 10-15 and had have constant complaints regarding file performance. ie, slow file sync times, inability to sync, file not available, long re-load times etc.

 

have you experienced this with your teams?

Message 10 of 16
MichaelRuehr
in reply to: aharp

That's one of the reasons we don't use this approach

From my experiance more than 10 people in a live project will slow Revit down nothing much you can do about

same with more than 15 linked Project Files, however, this got better now since we can locally unload Linked Project Files

 

Message 11 of 16
laurasmagin
in reply to: aharp

We had teams of up to 35 staff accessing the models, we relay on partial loading using work sets to manage performance. The staff only open the worksets they require to complete the section(s) of modeling they need to own. We use element owner ship, rather than work-set check out.

 

Our staff Sync often to avoid large data transfers, we use workshare monitors to check who is syncing and accessing models.

 

Hope this helps

Give me Kudos or mark as a solution if this helps
Regards
Laura
Message 12 of 16

I'm trying this method the issue I found is all my tags are misplaced in the SHEET FILES-when linked


@laurasmaginwrote:

Hi,

 

We work on Major Projects so our method of working is to ensure productivity.

 

We work with 'Model' , 'Sheet View' , and a 'Sheet' Files.

 

The model files contain no annotation elements other than hybrid 3D elements such as Grids and Levels. This is the file we do all our 'modelling', this file contain views for linking that are set with the view template to ensure all annotation elements are off. (This avoids clean up when linking files in a shared environment.

 

The Sheet View files contains the model files linked by attached. Here is where our production team do the work to prepare the views (Sections, elevations, plans etc. for use on our 2D deliverable sheets. Sometime these are Primary and dependants, so we again reduce the efforts by annotating only once.

 

The Sheet files contains all the sheets for delivery. The sheet file contains linked views from the sheet view file, this file is attached.

 

You can argue that you are duplicating effort with sheet views, but in my experience if you annotate directly on sheets files you will get orphan and tag loss, also this sheet file on major projects is a very heavy file due to all the federated models that make up our projects. This avoids abortive and repeated effort by the teams. Thus long term savings.

 

We usually have a model strategy that splits the project up. The Sheet view and sheet files bring all the federated models together to created the documentation for delivery

 

Hope this helps.

model, sheet view and Sheet Files.JPG

 

Tags behavior issue.

SHEET VIEWS contain the link model + tags & annotations

SHEETS FILES will contain link SHEET VIEWS and apply by Linked View to shop tags and add dimensioning and place on sheet.ROTATED TAGS.PNG

Message 13 of 16

Hi

Are you still applying this method?  having a problem with tags are dislocated and dimension not showing in Sheet File.

 

Thanks,

 

sheet file.png

Message 14 of 16
ntseten
in reply to: laurasmagin

Hey @laurasmagin,

  I'm confused about the steps between 'Model files' and  'sheet view.'  Can you explain in detail the steps of how to achieve this a project that involves about (2) 400,000sq/ft building on one site. The project is almost done but so far there hasn't been a 'Model files' and  'sheet view.' file set up and I feel that a great amount of work hours could have been saved had I known about this. 

 

Is there a reference reading material I can look up? i couldn't successfully search for it online. 

 

 

The model files contain no annotation elements other than hybrid 3D elements such as Grids and Levels. This is the file we do all our 'modelling', this file contain views for linking that are set with the view template to ensure all annotation elements are off. (This avoids clean up when linking files in a shared environment.

 

The Sheet View files contains the model files linked by attached. Here is where our production team do the work to prepare the views (Sections, elevations, plans etc. for use on our 2D deliverable sheets. Sometime these are Primary and dependants, so we again reduce the efforts by annotating only once.

Tags (1)
Message 15 of 16

We do all the annotation in the view where the elements exist to avoid orphaned tags... as I said

 

'You can argue that you are duplicating effort with sheet views, but in my experience if you annotate directly on sheets files you will get orphan and tag loss, also this sheet file on major projects is a very heavy file due to all the federated models that make up our projects. This avoids abortive and repeated effort by the teams. Thus long term savings.'

 

The exception is Dimension to Grid lines or levels as these are from the host file and copy/monitored so they take on the crop regions of the sheet view.

Give me Kudos or mark as a solution if this helps
Regards
Laura
Message 16 of 16
Liesa.alberto
in reply to: laurasmagin

I dont think having 3 models is an actual solution, you are doubling the work and if there is anything you see on the sheet that needs changing you will first need to open the model that hosts the "linked views", see if you can control it from there, if not open the first model which hosts the actual model elements. It kind of overcomplicates the whole thing. You will end up having the 3 models open, and that is if you are working only in 1 bulding and not multiple.

 

On top of that, you will be increasing the number of models you will need to manage, which in a large project is usually already changelling.

 

In my opinion the best strategy is breaking up the model by zones based on the nature of the project, and once you've done that, use the worksets in a smart way to control everything.

 

From my experience, the only tags that you might possibly lose in the Sheet model are the Keynotes, and to avoid this it can be as simple as leaving the keynotes for last (which makes sense anyway).

Any other tags that might disappear will be because of someone deleting the element, hence Revit losing the ID of that element, but this would also happen even if you were to use the "3 model workflow".

 

 

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