Window family void not cutting joined wall

[j0258169]

I have a Window Family with a Void (not an Opening) that is hosted on a Wall. There is a second Wall directly behind/adjacent to the first Wall, and they are joined together. 

The expected behavior, and what typically happens, is that the Void in the Window Family cuts through both the host Wall as well as the joined Wall. However, I have noticed that over time the joined Wall will stop being cut. I have tried unjoining and re-joining, moving the walls, recreating the walls; nothing I do will make the Window Family Void cut the joined wall.

This is a recurring problem. It happens inconsistently to random window family instances. I am not able to recreate this behavior manually, nor have I seen the moment when the Void fails, so I cannot find what causes it.

I can correct this problem by removing and re-placing the Window Family. The host Wall and joined Wall are then cut as expected. Even if I correct the problem, eventually it reoccurs. 

Has anyone else had experienced this issue? Is there a way to prevent it from happening? Is there a way to correct the problem without removing and re-placing the family?

[barthbradley]

What a coincidence; this is EXACTLY what happened to us yesterday! Best we could determine was that it is related to extending the vertical layers of the compound wall in which the windows were hosted. However, we can't consistently replicate to prove. But that's where we're at today. 

...I hope this thread picks up steam. I'll stay tuned.

[j0258169]

Odd.

My joined walls are both full height and full width of the window—e.g. exterior wall and interior furring wall.

The only fix I have for this thus far is to Cut the window and then Paste Aligned to Same Place. Doing this seems to maintain the any parameter properties, e.g. Mark. But I'd rather not have to constantly keep an eye out for this phenomenon..

[ToanDN]

Have you tried a window family with both Opening Cut and Void?  OF course, you cannot draw the Void directly in the family but you can nested it in from another Family.  See attached.

[barthbradley]

Not following you Toan. Can you explain? Sorry, I can't open your family right now.

Just to give you a little more info: what happened to us, that sounds a lot like what happened to @j0258169, involves Windows containing both cut (cuts family host), and uncut voids (cuts when loaded). 

[j0258169]

Yes my problem is not that the void does not work. The void works fine.

My problem is that the void will work fine for weeks and months even, and then one day it will stop working inexplicably.

[ToanDN]

@barthbradley

The parent window has a normal Cut Opening and a Void.  The void is from a nested family, Window template, no Cut Opening.

[ToanDN]

---

@j0258169 wrote:

Yes my problem is not that the void does not work. The void works fine.

My problem is that the void will work fine for weeks and months even, and then one day it will stop working inexplicably.

---

I understand.  That is the reason I keep the Cut Opening in the family.  Opening Cut is unlikely to fail next week so it may help keep the Void cut the joined wall as well. I think it is worth a try.

[barthbradley]

Yeah, that's a technique we use quite a lot, actually. I don't know if it has anything to do with our particular issue, but I'll add it to the list of culprits and investigate further. Thanks. 

[j0258169]

I understand, you're suggesting a Opening may be a more stable entity than a Void. This may be true, I'm not sure how to test this out (short of rebuilding every window family and observing for a few months).

I did try replacing one of my misbehaving window families (with a void) with just a default window family (with an opening) and the default window family opening now cuts the wall. But I also tried replacing the same misbehaving window family (with a void) with another window family with a void and the window family void now cuts the wall as well. So it's probably just the act of changing the family that's fixing the issue.

[barthbradley]

Okay, maybe I misunderstood, but don't think Toan is suggesting Openings at all; just Voids and nesting Voids. Still, yes, I concur with you that it's a solution that involves a lot of rebuilding work. 

[ToanDN]

@barthbradley  

He got it right.  I was suggesting both Cut Opening and Void in the family.

[barthbradley]

WHAT?! You can't have both an Opening and a Void in the same family. 

[ToanDN]

Yes.  As I have explained how to have them in the same family in the previous couple of posts.

[barthbradley]

Alright Toan. Then scratch what I said about using the same process. I found out long ago that Families that share Opening and Voids together are problematic, and therefore something to avoid. 

[ToanDN]

What kind of problems did you have?

[barthbradley]

It’s rather convoluted, but if you care to provide feedback, please read further:

It started by receiving the error message: “Cannot extend layers of the highlighted vertically compound wall” while trying to make some revisions. The revisions we were tasked with had absolutely nothing to do with walls, but Revit didn’t see it that way.

In order to make those revisions, we needed to get past this dumb error message, which provides the user with no recommendations or buttons to press to resolve the underlining issue is. It just says: “Cannot extend layers of the highlighted vertically compound wall”.

Upon inspecting the highlighted vertical compound walls, we found all of them extended: with their interior and core layers attached to the bottom chord of scissor trusses, and their exterior layers attached to the top chord of the scissor trusses.

We tried detaching the walls, lowering the walls, locking all the layers of the walls…nothing we did would detach the walls from the roof. We even tried cutting and pasting them back to the same spot, but the darn walls pasted back AND ATTACHED to the roofs exactly as they were before!

In doing all this troubleshooting we screwed up the windows. Now, we noticed that none of the windows were cutting through all the compound layers of the walls; just the finish layers! Keep in mind, these are not embedded walls; they are single basic wall types defined with interior and exterior layers. Very typical. Also, these are not parted or phase walls. 

If you read this far, maybe you can provide some insight – on both issues. You know I always appreciate it.

[ToanDN]

Sounds like a nightmare.

I did a simple test with joined compound walls, attached and detached to two roofs above and I did not have the problem.  The window (with Cut Opening and Void) remains intact and cut through the assembly.

I am sure it has something to do with the complexity of the model so a simple isolated test cannot endeavors.  So I am interested in knowing the solution when and if you find one.

p/s: I think OP problem is somewhat different.  His window cannot cut the entire joined wall, not just layers of the host wall.

[j0258169]

Correct, my window cuts through the host wall fine, and does not cut the joined wall at all.

[barthbradley]

A nightmare indeed. Two people working on it right now. Supposedly we did something Revit can't do; extended layers of vertically compound wall to 2 different heights. Let you know what we find. Thanks.

p.s. supposedly "Revit" means "Revise Instantly". I think not. 

p.p.s. Hey Toan, check out my new ranking! Just got it. I'm on your heels, buddy, and closing in!