Will ARM force Revit to Go Native on Macs?

[kylem1701]

Apple just announced all their computers will be ARM based by the end of 2021. This will effectively kill BootCamp as a viable option for running Revit, and Virtual Machine programs like VMWare and Parallels will have to emulate hardware causing significant performance hits. So, Autodesk, you're about to lose a significant install base. Will this finally get you to make Revit a native Mac app after 14 flipping years?

[MichaelWahl7184]

I personally find this fascinating.  I'm not only our office IT person and Autodesk Administrator but I ALSO run a Mac as my personal machine at home.  I use bootcamp for Revit and AutoCAD Architecture at home on it (and it screams, btw). 

If you're following this industry a lot of companies are switching to, or adding the ability to use ARM based solutions (even Windows.... see the latest Surface Pro models).  We have NVIDIA getting into the processor game, we've got Samsung and others heavily marketing their ARM solutions as next-gen hardware capable of running desktop solutions AND server solutions.  Now that we've started to run into caps with transistor size and speed we've got companies innovating in all sorts of ways. Pretty much everything that's been taken as standard for hardware is being re-thought. 

So what does that mean for Autodesk? Good question. the only thing to do is to speculate but I highly doubt they are not cognizant of the changes coming down the pipe.

We know Autodesk has reached a limit on what they can ask users to stuff into workstations for Revit and AutoCAD.  Cost to performance comparisons are lopsided.  The gains you get between a $3000.00 workstation and a $12,000.00 are middling unless you are adding third-party rendering software that can take advantage of that sweet hardware.  IE: not an Autodesk product (can't imagine they are happy about that).

Revit and AutoCAD production still mostly rely on processor speed and use very little of the graphics and multi-core advancements available in modern hardware.  They've taken some steps to address this but not nearly drastic enough. 

I can't imagine they are not considering their roadmap for the products. If history tells us anything I also can't imagine they will leave the software in our hands.  OneShape did the work of proving online production level CAD is possible and we know Autodesk has been heavily pushing and investing in online systems.   The next-step seems clear that this will be an SAAS arrangement where we pay a monthly fee and do all our work over a web-browser.  It won't matter then what hardware you are using and they can roll updates and change platforms to their hearts content.   Of course then I can use my Mac if I want so...

[jlupovici]

PC hardware is really bad compared to most macs,

my average macbook pro lasts 10 years before needing an upgrade,

my PC's tend to frustrate me after 2 years.

Mac is by far the superior hardware, and with new system-on-chip efficiencies of apple silicone (e.g. Mac M1 max) it's shortsighted of autodesk not to make Revit for Mac. considering they have native mac version of most of their software, this is one they need to add. Additionally, as cell phones get more  powerful , eventually you will be able to run revit from a phone or tablet, and those are almost exclusively powered by arm processors,  so dear autodesk, please make e everyone happy from and release an arm based version of revit that can. run effiently on mac.

I am using revit on my M1 max , but larger models are struggling, and just as slow as on my PC with no discrete graphics card 😞 , so not good enough.

please help us dear autodesk 

[albertson.chris]

I just read a compilation of job postings from the Microsoft website. It seems MS is hiring chip designers another’s with experience in making chips like Apple's “Apple Silicon”. They claim “Windows 12 will be optimized for ARM”

Apple got it right and the others will follow behind. I think MS is seeing the same thing Apple saw, that Intel just will never make what is needed and you just have to do it yourself.


The days of wring software ones and tuning on the same Intel chip on every computer are quickly drawing to a close. We will see each of the big PC makers having their own chips and some real competition. Chips are getting easy enough to design now that smaller and smaller companies will be able to get into it. 3rd party chip fabs can economically produce these designs.

[CGorsuchDRM6Q]

I feel the entire software industry may embrace a "run our software In a browser" to completely bypass the platform wars. I'm as bullish on the ARM revolution as you seem to be, but even if Windows on ARM becomes a real thing (which IMO it should), and Revit is rewritten to work with WinARM natively, then Virtual machines will continue to be a "viable alternative".

I would be very curious to see what Autodesk's internal projects are regarding existing windows users migrating to Revit-on-Mac vs NEW users who are currently using Archicad or Vectorworks. If the majority of the numbers of Revit-on-Mac licenses are merely changing from existing Windows licenses, that doesn't make a solid financial case for the development costs to create a Mac version o fRevit.

Vectorworks Architect and Graphisoft ArchiCAD are very capable BIM platforms that are well established in the Mac world. If you're looking for marketability, learning a new BIM platform only adds to one's marketability as a prospective employee or independent contractor. ESPECIALLY if you're seeking to operate in the Asian or European markets.

[HVAC-Novice]

Thanks for resurrecting this thread and the entertainment. I had a good laugh when I read the OP and then realized it is 3 year old thread that predicted the downfall of Autodesk if they don't go full Apple. Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future. 

Where are all the ARM devices that are as powerful as AMD Ryzen 7000 or Intel 13th gen CPUs and NVidia 4090 GPUs? I thought the end of x86 was imminent just 3 years ago? 

We live in the here and now and that means Windows rules if you use Revit. One can dream of an ARM World all day long. But this thread from 3 years ago shows those dreams may not come true (at least not within 3 years).

[albertson.chris]

Intel chips DID go away for Apple customers.   They are gone.   

Where are the powerful ARM chips?   I just bought a new Mac, it leaves my old Xeon-based computer in the dust.

What many people don't realize is that "Apple Silicon" is not just a CPU.  There are several over kinds of processors on the chip.  Apple is able to move functions that are slow in software to specialized hardware.   The basic benchmarks miss this.     What makes it fast is the unified memory.  The standard PC uses a PCIe bus to move data.  The new Macs simple to not move data.  Not moving is MUCH faster then moving even if you have a fast bus.

The old way of building PCs with generic parts plugged into busses worked until the busses became bottlenecks. The way to make it run faster is simple stop moving data over busses.  With unified memory there is no need to move the data.

As it turns out the Windows universe is moving in this direction too. Microsoft says Windows 12 will e "optimized for ARM" and they are hiring chip designers.    

It used to be that designing and building processors was such an expensive and complex process that not many organizations could do it so "everyone" used chips that were produced by only a few makers.   This is changing.  I think we will see intel loose its near-monopoly and every PC makers selling it's own chips.

[HVAC-Novice]

Please provide some relevant benchmarks that compare currently available ARM devices to an i9 13900k or AMD 7950X and to Nvidia 4090. "leaving an old Xeon in the dust" isn't a great metric. 

In the future we may do the Starship Enterprise beaming and all cars and airplanes will be obsolete. But till then, we use what we have now. Maybe ARM will be the new thing, maybe not. Maybe something completely different will come. 

If you make predictions about the future, please provide an estimate in what year this will happen. That way we can judge the estimate when we resurrect this thread in a few years. 

Optimizing for ARM doesn't mean not optimizing for x86 applications. AFAIK the goal is to be able to use the smartphone apps in addition to the typical Windows apps. 

Building modern processors is extremely difficult. There are only 3 manufacturers that can produce modern processors. Intel, TSMC, and Samsung. They also produce many of the other chips (RAM etc.) Everyone else is decades behind despite spending tons of $. There is only one manufacturer (ASML) who makes the machines to make chips, and one manufacturer (Zeiss) that can build the optics for them. Nations with billions of people have been trying to copy those systems and spent billions if not trillions of $, and they can't even copy the Western systems (not even speaking about inventing their own). Maybe you know something no one else does. But every PC manufacturer making their own chips is an illusion at best. Apple doesn't even make any of their own products, they have zero factories. The fact that it took Apple (with their hundreds of billions of $ worth) so many years to design (or buy) their own chip proves my point. TSMC actually produces the "Apple" M2 chip (they also make AMD chips). So yeah, good luck with everyone producing their own chips. 

[jlupovici]

Now that Microsoft seems to be choosing arm for their surface pro, it’s about time that autodesk takes arm and system on chip seriously as this is the future of mobile computing.

please make revit work native on Mac and arm based pc’s

thank you

[Simon_Weel]

Using Revit on a Macintosh system (autodesk.com)

[mhiserZFHXS]

Whenever I see Apple users ranting about Autodesk missing out on a massive, huge, ginormous share of the market...

[HVAC-Novice]

Unless that Surface tablet has two 43" monitors, a powerful GPU and CPU, I don't think I'm interested.

Even if a MS Surface uses ARM and would be powerful enough... a Revit version for an ARM based Surface wouldn't be compatible with a Mac. ARM is just licensing scheme. It doesn't mean all ARM CPU are similar or compatible to each other. 

And ARM isn't magically more efficient or better. It is just optimized for mobile and low power applications. It isn't like all the x86 engineers in the last years are all idiots that don't know how to design hard and software and ARM designers are a collection of Einsteins who posess some magic knowledge about how to make a powerful CPU while not using electricity. Yes, your ARM based phone uses less power, but it also can't run large applications. It is like saying a small fishing boat uses less fuel than a Containership. Yes, that is true. But it also carries much less cargo. x86 and ARM have different applications and target audiences. 

Many desktops used aren't powerful enough for Revit. I doubt the technology will progress soon to make mobile devices powerful enough. And there still is the issue of large monitors that would make a mobile device not mobile anymore. Whatever happens in the mobile world has no relevance to a productivity software like Revit. 

If you think ARM is the next big thing for BIM, why don't you open your own software company and create a better product? 

And I'm not an OS, chip or BIM investment expert. And neither is anyone else here. I'm sure Autodesk has qualified people who look into all investment options. Even if they hypothetically would entertain this ARM idea, they have to decide if it is worth TO THEM to invest a few dozen million $ and take resources from the x86 team to risk an ARM adventure. No one in this thread has enough insight, expertise or knowledge to make that decision. You can say about Autodesk products what you want, but so far they have been able to make decision that were good for Autodesk. I doubt they need investment advice from us (and developing a product is an inherently risky investment decision).