I have been doing some research. For current architectural job listings 74% of the openings require Revit skills. About 50% require AutoCAD Skills, and about 34% require Sketchup skills. It seems that AutoCAD and Sketchup peeked about 10 years ago and Revit is taking over. But there are still a lot of people using AutoCAD and Sketchup ... but as numbers decline when will it become the trailing edge of technology in architectural practice. Sketchup is like Apple in that it has a strong loyal minority cult following. And there are a lot of people still loyal to AutoCAD. The facts are AutoCAD and Sketchup are not BIM, but Revit is. So I see Revit continuing to dominate and grow.
Sketchup seemed to be a good compliment to AutoCAD they each filled in the other's weaknesses, but Revit can do the Sketchup like stuff and also do CD's and renderings.
Also there is the dynamic of the fact that Sketchup is now owned by Google and not Atlast software. Atlast geared Sketchup towards Architects, where Google seems to be grearing it towards Google Earth.
As the BIM manager I feel that steering the company towards Revit is the proper thing to do. Also Revit is really my strength these days because I have been working pretty much all Revit the last 12 years, so I forgot a lot of the other programs that I used.
So I would like other opinions on this topic.
Jeff Rath
BIM Manager
Coover Clark
As the BIM manager, you should revisit the definition of BIM. BIM is a process. AutoCAD, Sketchup, and Revit can be all be a part of that process but the use of any of them does not necessarily mean that you are doing BIM. Just because you are using Revit, doesn't mean you are doing BIM.
Coming from the MEP side, the swing to Revit from AutoCAD is strong around here. Even the smaller MEP firms are feeling the push to adopt Revit as more and more architects are requiring their MEP consultants to use it.
I think of BIM as a model ... a model that updates ...
I think of AutoCAD as 2 dimensional drawings ... I think of Sketchup as a modeling program that produces a model that is not intelligent enough to be a BIM model.
I totally get the Engineers point of view where it is easier to do 2d line drawings than produce a 3d BIM model.
But BIM is here to stay and it is growing. I have worked mostly in architecture ... and in Architecture Revit rocks.
I started doing 3d modeling back in 1986. I have worked with AutoCAD, Arris, Microstation, Datacad, Sketchup, and more ... By far I prefer Revit to everything else that I have used.
When I worked as a cad manager for ARRIS and AutoCAD I never had a 3d model where I could check things ...
Some firms use Sketchup to generate a 3d model and AutoCAD to generate drawings ... but then the model and drawings are separate and have to be updated separately ... that is NOT BIM.
ive been working with revit in the uk for 12 yrs and there are still many many practices that are only just taking it up. i think the difference between the uptake of sketchup and revit used to be due to the fact that students could get sketchup for free... and so architecture students started using sketchup and pulled it with them into architectural practices?! i certainly watched that happen.
you can 'do BIM' on a **** packet with word and excell - revit CAN help with BIM ..... and just the same is NOT BIM per se
BIM isnt going away anytime soon
Best to break that idea that "AutoCAD is 2D". In it's corner it does 3D very well, just as Revit does very well in it's own corner.
So the reason I started this thread is to pose the question ... when or if will autocad and sketchup become the trailing edge of technology ... seeing the trend of increased Revit useage is this inevitable?
@Anonymous wrote:
I think of BIM as a model ... a model that updates ...
Then you are wrong. Too many people use the term inappropriately. They think because they use Revit, they are doing BIM. That is not true.
In 2006 I was working for another company that was using Sketchup and AutoCAD. I told them I didn't think that was the path of the future, they thought it was. We parted ways and I came to Denver where I switched to Revit. Since then that old company also switched to Revit.
It seems the sketchup AutoCAD solution is used more at smaller firms and Revit is used more by bigger firms.
I have worked at some very large firms were Sketchup was nowhere to be found and AutoCAD was not the main software.
I'm just beginning to learn Revit, so don't laugh at this process. I have used SketchUp to model elements and then import them into Revit. I get DWG files from consultants and manufactures. It is nice to have AutoCAD so I can clean up their files to be used as backgrounds. I think that these 2 software packages will be around for a long long time to come. The fact that they work together makes the move forward to Revit easier but it also makes the move take much much longer.
The ability to pick something up and run with it is a key to being able to make money selling your services. SketchUp is so intuitive and easy to learn. I think that the learning curve is pretty steep for Revit. You have to know how to manipulate the view settings and then program the families. Some of these things are still over my head and I have been using the software for 2 years. I'm trying to learn this on my own, being the only architect in this office. With 20yrs of AutoCAD experience you get a library of details built up. Then to move to a completely different software takes a large investment.
Matthew
Interesting that there is argument about what BIM is. It's an acronym that spells out the definition quite clearly.
B - Building. BIM is specific to buildings (and the design, engineering, and construction of them.) AutoCAD and SketchUp are generic, which means they can be used for drafting, architecture, as well as other things.
I - Information. This is the critical difference. BIM models contain information related to the parts of a building. It maps the building data onto the building components. This is useful for scheduling, quantities, analysis, and yes, coordination. This is why BIM needs to be building-specific. AutoCAD and Sketchup alone do not do this as their core software usage, however, both have software "add-ons" that do some of these things, like AutoCAD Architecture.
M - Model. Meaning 3D modeling. Not a unique feature. As mentioned, SketchUp is 3D and AutoCAD has 3D capabilities. Although the fact Revit can produce a good 3D model as well as CD's is nice.
The information aspect (and by extension coordination) is the critical part. It is the information mapping, information coordination, information analysis, information scheduling that truly differentiates BIM from CAD. AutoCAD is arguably a more versatile drafting program (especially for those using it for 20 years). SketchUp is a breeze to model things.
So, to answer your original question, AutoCAD and SketchUp will go away when the use of BIM and it's embedded data unquestionably outweighs CAD's one-way process. When enough firms use Revit or Revit-compatible software that coordination without BIM is cumbersome. When engineers fully utilize Revit analysis tools and it's easier to link Revit models than export to another program. When architects and contractors begin to see that BIM quantity take-offs are easier than other methods. As more people use Revit and the software becomes more robust, the less CAD and SketchUp will be appealing.
I am not saying AutoCAD will go away and I know sketchup won't either ... but rather they will become the trailing edge
There is no answer to your question about when AutoCAD will become "trailing edge" technology. Even if you just take it in the context here as being used for Architecture. Some would say, "It already is." and some others, "Not in your lifetime". When I started using MEP2010, it was already up and coming and quite obvious it was more than just a fad. That was when AutoCAD started trailing for me.
I think Revit would have a hard time existing without AutoCAD at this point ... otherwise how would you do Civil drawings ...
@Anonymous wrote:
I think Revit would have a hard time existing without AutoCAD at this point ...
It can and is being done on a daily basis.
@Anonymous wrote:
otherwise how would you do Civil drawings ...
Who's doing Civil in AutoCAD?
True, that's not technically part of the building! And in truth, the Revit site tools are severely lacking.
That said, GIS is similar to BIM in that is overlays information onto physical objects, ie. geographically defined regions. It's a truly powerful tool that combines location and data. BIM + GIS will be a very powerful combo when/if they are every fully integrated.
I know that's not what you were talking about with the civil engineering, but mattp got me thinking in that direction with the thought of Earth Information Models.
funny you mention that ... about 2 or 3 years ago I had a phone interview with an engineering firm in the Denver area. The ad said they were looking for a BIM manager. So I got to the 2nd phone interview and the senior guy said that he need somebody to manage civil 3d. I told him that civil 3d is not BIM. He said it was 2d BIM ...
What the heck???
So how can it be BIM if there isn't even a building?
I had to politely tell the guy that I was not interested in the job and that they were mis-representing the job ... I told him it was cad and not BIM.
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