What's the best practice to model walls

[dnvrd]

Hello, I know this seems like a very basic question but here we go.

Recently I've been discussing about walls modelling. Lots of architects in my country/region tend to model walls as separate elements, from cores to finishes, everything as separate Wall elements, then glue everything joining the geometry to then make openings such as doors and windows. Schedules for walls are generally made using the Wall Type and not the materials used to make such types.

I tend not to like this method, because sometimes the geometry generated by separate walls usually seem sketchy and wall wraps (+ their representation through plans and sections) usually don't work with certain families of doors, windows and components, but I don't know if that's the only good way to model in order to get good schedules and good modelling geometry to have structure + walls + slabs all working.

So, how do you usually model walls? What's the best practice to have everything down in terms of geometry, schedules and other problems that can eventually happen? Is using a "hybrid" solution the best of both worlds?

[bimscape]

I'd be very interested to know what percentage of users actually build up all there walls manually from separate layers?! The whole ethos of BIM is a drive towards increased efficiency and accuracy. Personally I use use the Wall tool to get the Walls in there- and then the suite of tools to work with them as required for refinement  

[barthbradley]

Phasing the build-up.  

[barthbradley]

---

@dnvrd wrote:

What's the best practice?

---

We use both - in the same Project - depending on which is "best".  

[dnvrd]

@bimscape 

I've worked with people who build walls all with separate layers, always. I really think that's insanity, because of the many bugs that can happen when you need to change wall types or have any kind of modifications during the process of designing.

@barthbradley 

Also regarding that subject, how do you usually extract wall schedules: by Wall Type or by the materials used to create the wall types?

[HVAC-Novice]

Only time I build walls layer-by-layer is if I add a wall to an existing wall. Like a furr-wall to add insulation. but in that case, the original wall in created in a phase prior the furr-wall phase. 

Best is what is best for you and your project. 

[RPTHOMAS108]

Single walls with compound layers then convert to parts if you want separation including phasing, perhaps. Different views for different purposes with parts or show original.

I guess that is partly why parts were introduced. I don't know the exact downside of parts, not used as extensively as I thought they would be by now.

[syman2000]

Typically if you want wall to break down into separate layers, I would use parts instead of modelling each individual wall layers. Also what is your detail level in your country? I find it is pointless to detail high level because the efficiency and time to revise it takes way longer than intended. As well the more high detail and complexity you have, the less likely someone will be able to fix your model. If you need something that is high detail of wall framing, then I would look at plugin like AGACAD.

[daniel.araujo5SC6W]

hey, so what do you do when there's a ceiling below the Top Constraint Level of the wall? Does the finish go beyond the ceiling? Isn't it "bad" to extract quantities accurately? That's why I tend to model walls separately, but if there's faster and smarter way to do it with compound walls, please tell me!

[HVAC-Novice]

If you want to properly schedule the finished layer (e.g. furr wall) and that layer only goes to the ceiling or some inches above, I would make that a separate wall and join with the structural wall. That way you should have proper account of the drywall area (less than structural area) and the windows still poke through both walls. 

I guess you could make it a stacked wall with the bottom being a wall with drywall, the tope without. but that won't work well for multiple stories assuming each floor will have the same issue. I like my separate furr-wall since that also takes care of some shafts or other unusual furring and boxing out for pipes etc. 

Best to create the schedules and try out some options and see what works best and verify accurate count. 

Edit: model it like it will be built. The contractor builds the structural wall from ground to the top level. then a contractor builds the drywall for each level from floor to ceiling. this is an example where Revit can model it like it actually will be built. 

[daniel.araujo5SC6W]

thanks! I was asking that because the walls I usually model are masonry, so they normally reach the slab.

[eblackburnEFFVJ]

You can unlock layers of a composite wall that then give you an adjustable grip to modify that layer in a section view. This would allow the interior drywall to stop at the ceiling while the rest of the wall continues up, or allow brick or metal siding to drop below the floor slab on the exterior.

Revit's Road Map shows editable 3D wall layers in an upcoming version that would take this to the next level. Link below.

Real 3D Wall Layers