View Templates.... Default parameter values when nothing assigned, Changing mid project etc

[payingtoomuch]

I'm working on setting up some new view templates. Trying to simplify things. Thought I had a handle on this but now I'm not so sure....

As I'm working on my templates I'm trying to sort through how changes that I make to my view templates affect my properties palette AND the information that has been assigned at the property level vs the template level and vice versa.

Note that a lot of these decisions are revolving around getting some working views established and creating templates that MAY apply specifically to the working views. However, it might also be nice if I don't need specific working view templates, but not quite sure how I can get there from here.

I've come to realize that for the most part, when something is greyed back in the properties palette that means that that particular parameter (or set of parameters) has been "included" (the tick box has been checked) in the view properties for the view template assigned to view. As example, if I select "none" as the view template type, then most everything is selectable and editable in the view properties palette (very little is greyed back).

So, this has me wondering how all this works together..... again.

As I work through my new and improved view templates I want some things for each view to be assignable at the property palette level (individual to a particular view).... and will not be affected if I reassign a view template that has had changes made to it,  AND I want some of these properties to be assigned globally and updated via changes to the view template. And I need to make some choices as to which I want to be handled which way.

So, that creates some questions for me.

-How are the default parameter/ property values for a particular view template determined? Meaning, let's say I create a new plan view for a particular level for an assigned plan type with a preassigned view template. Well the associated view template can have any number of different parameters "included" or "not included" via the tick box and other buried parameters within the tick box categories. My understanding would be that for the included parameters those parameters are ASSIGNED to the view that the template is assigned to.... and that makes sense. However, as best I can tell, the other parameters that are editable (because they are "not included" and therefor not assigned (sort of) ARE assigned to some default value.... and I can't figure out how these defaults are arrived at. Is there some way to assign these defaults? Are these default values customizable?

-Let's say for that same plan view that I created, I'm also wondering what categories of the parameters (both the "assigned/ included/ NOT editable in the properties palette"
AND the "not assigned/ not included/ editable in the properties palette". I think I get that if I change a property in the palette for a particular view it will only affect that view. AND I would physically have to open up the view template to make changes to the view template and then update this particular view with the new settings by reassigning the view template. And I think that those updates to the view template, once assigned would also update all the other views with that view template assigned.... without me doing anything else..... but I'm not sure about this. AND, I'm also not absolutely certain that ALL the parameters in the view properties palette that ARE editable (and specific to the view) wouldn't get updated if I decided to change the view template to included. Just not clear on how this is supposed to function.

I'm running into problems dealing with these changes in a model that I'm working on that I simultaneously want to keep some of the parameters I have assigned (mostly through view templates) but I would also want to override some of the properties with the same view template with some added "included" parameters.

Basically, I want all my floor plans to have matching properties except for those properties that I have made changes to that I don't want to match.

Some other related considerations:

• Would like to be able to create floor plan templates that have the view range settings set up in a way such that one view range setting will get me in the ballpark for ALL of my different FLOOR PLAN views + roof plan and foundation plan. So, idea would be that for any floor plan view, once I created it, I could see everything that has been drawn and will be drawn that is above and below the reference level. That in my mind would mean I could start with something along the lines of for the "Primary Range" "Top"= Unlimited, "Cut Plane"= Reference Level with 4'-0" Offset, and "Bottom"= Unlimited. With "View Depth" level = Unlimited as well. The thinking being that as long as I have Discipline set to "Architectural" with "Show Hidden Lines" Set to ALL, AND ALL of my VG overrides for Model, Annotation & Import Categories are turned on then I should be good to go. Meaning I would be able to see everything in the view. THEN I can go about turning OFF whatever I need to in the view by adjusting VG overrides, View Range DISTANCES (rather than levels that are associated with the reference level (Remembering that Reference level will "always" be where I want my cut based off of). A question would be whether it would make more sense to apply the Visibility graphics at the template level OR make ALL (or some) of the visibility graphics settings (Model, Annotation and Import) Editable at the View level (because I don't apply the VG settings to the template). Not real clear in my mind which approach makes the most sense.
• I'm thinking the Underlay settings should probably be a parameter that is unassigned at the template level. That way I can just make changes immediately at the view level without needing to go back into the template to enable the changes. Ideally, however I would like to have some baseline defaults applied..... but don't know if I can somehow select the defaults as outlined above.
• Bottom line is I'm thinking 9 times out of 10 these settings will get me close. I mean the thinking also goes that I can spend a lot of time trying to think about how far to offset this and that from this and that level but as soon as a building type changes.... number of stories, heights between stories, basements and whatever all these are going to be manipulated anyway..... so why not start clean with a clean template that is something i I can see everything in and fix it per the project. Also thinking (with my limited knowledge.... based on the way things currently seem to be going) that I would much rather turn a few things off here and there via visibility graphics (or hiding in a view) than having to continually go hunting down in VG what I MIGHT need to turn on. But would like to hear from others regarding this general approach.
• So, as long as the general approach makes sense, then sections and elevations should be pretty straight forward. And whatever I come to terms with on how to handle the various scales with the approach to plans should work as well
• Depth clipping (I think) wants to not be included (assigned) so that I can work with it on the fly for whatever view I'm in.

I know this is confusing..... Sure is to me and I apologize for passing that confusion on to others but can someone please help to unconfuse me on these relationships...... (haha..... sort of).

Need to be able to get to a place with these new templates as a good jumping off place. Again, need to make some good decisions on what to include and not to include.... a good jumping off place would be a good start.

As always, thanks for any insight into this that anyone can provide.

[s_dziedzicBJXBG · Accepted solution]

tl;dr but you should look into Temporary View Template.

https://help.autodesk.com/view/RVT/2024/ENU/?guid=GUID-AB09B293-747B-4DA0-AFAA-77BBF42193D5 

[RSomppi · Accepted solution]

Too much to address and too many details to break down. You are way overcomplicating it. Start simple and as you progress you sill come to understand the finer points. You included so much it's hard to find a place to start. I could spend an hour sitting beside you showing you the ropes and still wouldn't have enough time to address all of your concerns. I'll be glad to help with individual questions. (I've been creating view templates since 2010 for a number of different companies.)

Pick a question and post it here. We can refer to your OP for additional information as we go.

[payingtoomuch]

Really? Should have seen the unabridged version (:

Thanks for the link. Yes, I'm becoming more and more familiar with the temporary view capabilities but this is kind of a different "question" (big plural lol).

Definitely need to consider how the temporary view capabilities factor into this however.... may not need as many view templates etc. So thanks for bringing up that part.

[payingtoomuch]

Thanks RSomppi. Apologies..... yes that was kind of a brain dump.... probably more of a how I'm thinking this through type post than questions I guess.... right or wrong.

Regardless, yes your offer would be great. I'm actually really for simplifying things..... just doesn't always come across that way.

Let me get some thoughts together and I'll break this down into some more concise questions that will be easier for everyone (including myself) to get their heads wrapped around.

[payingtoomuch]

Here we go! Simplified versions (:

For a view template that is applied to a particular view, where the view template that is applied does not have a particular parameter/ or set of parameters "included", how are the default values for the editable properties/ parameters showing in the properties palette (not greyed back) for the particular view determined? Is there a way that I can change these defaults? I want to be able to do this so that whenever I apply a template (by default) to a "floor plan" that I create for ANY level will be the same for all the levels. So I have the same starting point for all the views of the various levels that I create. Hope this makes sense!

[RSomppi]

Please include screenshots for even more clarity.

[RSomppi]

---

@payingtoomuch wrote:

For a view template that is applied to a particular view, where the view template that is applied does not have a particular parameter/ or set of parameters "included"

---

It took this sentence to get me off on the wrong foot. Applying a view template that doesn't control anything does nothing. Have no idea what you are getting at.

[payingtoomuch]

Meant to do that!

Here you go....

In an effort for clarity, I decided to include some explanations along with the screenshots to make things easier to understand...... Well after looking at the end result not sure there is a whole lot less verbiage using this method!

Let me know if this is not what you're looking for and I'll be happy to clean up whatever I need to to do my part in making this as painless as possible. Part of the problem is me. Part of the problem is this stuff just ain't that easy to communicate lol!

Here goes!

I want to be able to create a "working floor plan" in the type category I have created "%Working Plans" for the ground floor and reference the "top of slab ground floor" (as example).

I want to assingn my new "Plan_Working" view template to ALL of my working plans by default and to all floor plan views created in this manner

Right now (temporarily..... while I think this through) I have "included" as few parameters as possible in the view template, with the idea being, have as many options as possible for manipulating the working views individually. With the thinking that when these parameters are NOT included in the template then that would mean they would not potentially be overridden if I update the template later and then reapply it to the various views. Because in my mind, technically, they are not a part of the view template and only changeable in the properties palette for the view.

Notice right now in particular that I don't have V/G overides or view range selected. For the view range, I want this to be DEFAULTED to a particular set of levels and dimensions that will apply to ALL views the template is applied to. But I ALSO THINK I want to have the flexibility to manipulate these settings at the view level, without affecting my other working views for the other floors. Similar thinking also applies to the V/G settings. These delimmas are a big part of my question/s and will determine my approach.

These are the view range settings as entered in the template. BUT, notice that the view range tick box for view range is deselected. I was hoping that these would be the defaults for the new views I create for the various levels that this template is assigned to..... but that does not seem to be the case. Is there any way I can assign these values as a default? For the record I'm not sure these are the values I want but I have my thinking surrounding this as well. Will spare you for now.

 

Notice that for all of the V/G overrides I have them all turned on....

I'll spare you the whole list. Note that annotation and Imported categories are handled the same way.

The idea being that I want to start with everything turned on in my template and manipulate as needed in the individual views.

And this is the property palette for the view that was immediately created via the normal plan creation routine. It is NOT a view that the properties have been manipulated in any way prior to assigning the view template. Notice that most of properties/ parameters are editable (because they are not "included" in the assigned view template. This is as I think I want things.... at least for now. So I can manipulate all the parameters at the individual view level.

Notice also that the view range is editable at the view properties level. This is how I want things to be handled (similar to the way V/G parameters are handled).

BUT, notice here that the default values for the view range are NOT what I entered above for the view range that was entered in the template..... albeit deselected/ not included. As stated above was hoping this would show up as the same..... and the same across the various views I create that have this view template applied.

[payingtoomuch]

Sorry about that. Was getting screenshots below together when you posted this. HOPEFULLY, it will be more clear with the screenshots. Really not trying to waste your (or anyone else's) time.

[RSomppi]

I'd like to help but you are king of all over the place even with your "simplified" questions. It's going to take some time to break down what you are asking. I suggest that you dummy it down, A LOT more. It's not that I don't understand what you are saying, I just can't follow with a quick read.

Let me say just one thing. You keep saying stuff about default values for when a view template does not control some or all aspects. The answer would be the same values that Revit defaults to when not using templates.

[payingtoomuch]

Fair enough. Let me see what I can do.

"The answer would be the same values that Revit defaults to when not using templates." Ok. Well guess I need to look into how the normal default values are established. Will do that. Thanks.

[SteveKStafford · Accepted solution]

View Templates exist to force order onto many views. If your many views need discreet variance for View Range then the View Template should not include View Range in its scope of control.

A change in a View Template will alter the appearance of every view assigned to it, the number of views associated with it is displayed in the top right corner of the Manage View Templates dialog.

If the Include column is not checked for a specific entry it does not apply to or influence the view. You can change those values in V/G dialog or properties of the view. For example, an architectural slab edge plan might want a custom view range applied as well as a view scale. Those items need to have the Include column checked so any view you associate with the "Slab Edge Plan" View Template will be affected in the same way.

I typically see View Scale NOT included in view template control when the categories are the primary thing the view template is governing, which categories are not visible or are visible, but the team wants to be able to change scale or view range independently.

A common or effective way to create a View Template is to fine tune a floor plan so it looks exactly the way you need it to look and then use the Create View Template from View tool. Then assign that view template to all relevant views. 

I use Apply Temporary View Template to alter a view to show specific elements in a view that are ordinarily not shown. For example, if I am trying to resolve warnings related to room separators I will apply a view template that ONLY alters the appearance of a view's Model Categories > Lines > Room Separators. I make the color and lineweight different enough to pop out of the drawing. When I am done making changes I remove the temporary View Template and the one that is already assigned to establishes its priorities again.

View templates are not nearly as effective when the building model is simple and there are just a few plans of each kind. They are most effective when there are multiple views of the same kind/purpose and therefore minimize the effort required to get a consistent appearance for each view.

[payingtoomuch]

---

@SteveKStafford wrote:

View Templates exist to force order onto many views. If your many views need discreet variance for View Range then the View Template should not include View Range in its scope of control. Yes. This is how I would understand things. What I'm trying to get to is a way to have what defaults in my view template for the parameters that ARE NOT INCLUDED are something that I would like to start with.... so less likely to need to change. In part as a baseline so I can SEE EVERYTHING that is there (roof, footings, alot of the above and below components, imported categories (backgrounds etc) and model and annotation categories that exist (because I'll have all these turned on in the WORKING template (thanks again btw). The biggest hurdle I'm having with this (for now) is setting up so I have ONE working view that I can apply to all my plan views. Because that "requires" me to establish DEFAULT View Ranges that I can manipulate in the properties palette. AND to be able to manipulate them (without opening the template) they need to be NOT included. Can't come up with a way to make this work the way I want it to. It's not a deal breaker but it is bugging me.

A change in a View Template will alter the appearance of every view assigned to it, the number of views associated with it is displayed in the top right corner of the Manage View Templates dialog. YES!, I remember this from time to time but definitely need to pay more attention to it. Thanks for the reminder!

If the Include column is not checked for a specific entry it does not apply to or influence the view. This is as I thought but obviously I was not 100% certain. More courage now to make some changes. You can change those values in V/G dialog or properties of the view. So.... not sure I'm following here. Let's say the "include" tick box is deselected for a particular view template. For now let's assume it's the V/G MODEL overrides category. That would mean to me that that category in the PROPERTIES palette will allow me to select it and make changes directly in the properties Palette. AND those changes will not impact the template.... because they are specific to the view. Where it gets fuzzy for me is if at a later time I were to go back into the view template proper and manipulate that same V/G Model category (which is still not "included"), how that affects things. I would think that it would not impact any of the views (because it's not "included" in any of the views), but then it kind of has me scratching my head as to why I would want to be able to change it in the first place? Maybe it's that I MIGHT want to apply that category later or something.... but then if I were to do that it could really mess up things for me with the views already established. But maybe I can't really update all the views at one shot anyway, so at least I would have a visual as to what the overrides are doing. Still scratching my head on this one.....For example, an architectural slab edge plan might want a custom view range applied as well as a view scale. Those items need to have the Include column checked so any view you associate with the "Slab Edge Plan" View Template will be affected in the same way. Yes, I understand this part.

I typically see View Scale NOT included in view template control when the categories are the primary thing the view template is governing, which categories are not visible or are visible, but the team wants to be able to change scale or view range independently. Thanks for the real world break down. This is basically as I'm thinking. And in part why I'm thinking we can get rid of all these templates we have for the various scales.... for the most part. Just need to make sure you select the correct scale for the sheet size etc. Probably could at least work for 3/32" scale and larger. Smaller than that could run into muddy hatch patterns etc so might need separate templates for that. Obviously, lots of different reasons for different view template types but just eliminating the need for multiple scales for the various plan types will clean things up a lot here.

A common or effective way to create a View Template is to fine tune a floor plan so it looks exactly the way you need it to look and then use the Create View Template from View tool. Then assign that view template to all relevant views. 

I use Apply Temporary View Template to alter a view to show specific elements in a view that are ordinarily not shown. For example, if I am trying to resolve warnings related to room separators I will apply a view template that ONLY alters the appearance of a view's Model Categories > Lines > Room Separators. I make the color and lineweight different enough to pop out of the drawing. When I am done making changes I remove the temporary View Template and the one that is already assigned to establishes its priorities again. That makes a lot of sense. Temporary views used for kind of one off needs. View templates and working view templates for big picture and more permanent stuff..... or at least moving in a permanent direction type manipulation.

View templates are not nearly as effective when the building model is simple and there are just a few plans of each kind. They are most effective when there are multiple views of the same kind/purpose and therefore minimize the effort required to get a consistent appearance for each view. I can follow this at least on some level. So, the idea being that for small projects it can actually make sense just to turn on and off various entities for each sheet view. Maybe that can be just 1 template that has everything turned on and you just turn off what you don't need..... similar to autocad viewports and layer states and all that that entails (and continues to entail lol). But, wanting control of all these things so you don't have to repeat tasks (probably really unrealistic in the first place) is the golden carrot hanging out in front..... and REALLY has the potential to take you down a serious rabbit hole. Or something like that. Has me thinking.....

THANKS Steve!

---

[payingtoomuch]

"and you just turn off what you don't need..... similar to autocad viewports and layer states"

Meant to say similar to autocad in viewports without using layer state functionality....