Several questions about stairs (workflow for existing stairs; arrow not visible)

[Prvoime]

I have an existing stairs so the measurements are all a little wonky. One run has one thread depth, other another, landing is different width than runs...

Q1
The only way to do this is by sketch mode, automatic ones can't do different thread depths per run, correct?
(Or maybe you could, by creating different runs separately, making it more work than to do it by sketch?)
Since array doesn't work in sketch mode you have to take the calculator out, divide the length to get the tread depths, manually copy every raiser line... AutoCAD style, correct?

Come to think of it, even when designing new buildings I almost always have a defined fixed space where I have to cram the stairs in, so while automatic ones are nice in theory, by sketch will be preferred method?

Q2
Up arrow isn't visible at the cut mark. It's visible on second floor where the stairs end, but it's cut off at the cut mark on the first floor. Seems like it somehow ends up "under" the stair that it is drawn. If I play trial and error game with "Distance to Cut Mark" parameter I can show a bit more of it, but never whole. And where I live it's customary to always draw it to the cut mark. How do I get it to show, because leaving it like this isn't acceptable.

Q3
"Draw for Each Run" doesn't seem to do anything. It's not written anywhere in the help, but I assume this doesn't work for sketched stairs, the same way you can't get a curved line at landings for sketched stairs. Correct?

File attached.

[barthbradley]

Is this basically about how to get the arrow to display correctly?  If so, have you considered hiding the Category in the Plan Views and drawing your own arrow ?  

[Prvoime]

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@barthbradley wrote:

Is this basically about how to get the arrow to display correctly? 

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Well, no. It's about three questions as stated above. Let me try to simplify them:

Q1

Are stairs by sketch the best approach for "non standard" stairs, or is there a way to "forcefully" cram stairs by component in a predefined space?

I.e. if a run has to fin in 150cm, and I have to have 8 raisers on it, make it fit! With stairs by component.

I.e. can I choose the beginning and the end of the run? No matter how deep treads end up. With stairs by component.

I.e. can the depth of the treads conform to the length of the run, not the other way around? With stairs by component.

Q2

How do I show the arrow?

If it can be fixed I'd rather fix the issue and have automatic ones, instead of manually place dumb objects on all floors and all stairs.

Q3

"Draw for Each Run"  doesn't seem to work on stairs by sketch, or am I doing something wrong?

[ToanDN]

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@Prvoime wrote:

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@barthbradley wrote:

Is this basically about how to get the arrow to display correctly? 

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Well, no. It's about three questions as stated above. Let me try to simplify them:

Q1

Are stairs by sketch the best approach for "non standard" stairs, or is there a way to "forcefully" cram stairs by component in a predefined space?

You can reduce the Minimum Tread Depth and increase the Maximum Riser Height under Stair type properties so that you can 'cramp' a component stair in the required length.

When  start drawing the stair, pay attention to the Actual Tread Depth and change it accordingly up to the Minimum value set in the stair type.

I.e. if a run has to fin in 150cm, and I have to have 8 raisers on it, make it fit! With stairs by component.

I.e. can I choose the beginning and the end of the run? No matter how deep treads end up. With stairs by component.

I.e. can the depth of the treads conform to the length of the run, not the other way around? With stairs by component.

Not automatically.  You need to calculate the Tread Depth and enter to the Actual Tread Depth when drawing the stair.

Q2

How do I show the arrow?

If it can be fixed I'd rather fix the issue and have automatic ones, instead of manually place dumb objects on all floors and all stairs.

Annotate > Stair Path

Q3

"Draw for Each Run"  doesn't seem to work on stairs by sketch, or am I doing something wrong?

Start with stair by components and draw Runs + Landings so that you have the basic qty of steps covered.  Then, convert Runs and Landings to By Sketch and edit the sketch if needed.

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[barthbradley]

Building codes govern tread depth and riser height, so I'm not really sure you mean by "forcefully cramming" stairs into an allotted space.  Regarding the Arrow; that's a annotation element. It's on the Annotate Tab/Symbol Panel. 

[Prvoime]

@ToanDN 

When  start drawing the stair, pay attention to the Actual Tread Depth and change it accordingly up to the Minimum value set in the stair type.

Oh, I missed that you can manually enter it here after starting the command but before you start to draw. That does help!

Just one more question regarding this. In cases as this existing stairs I'm drawing, when one run has treads one depth and another run treads different depth, then stairs by sketch is the best approach, right?

Annotate > Stair Path

This just puts that same family (built in "Fixed Up Direction Standard", I didn't do anything crazy to it), with the same problem.

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@barthbradley 

Building codes govern tread depth and riser height, so I'm not really sure you mean by "forcefully cramming" stairs into an allotted space.

Not in my part of the world. Public buildings, yes. Private residential buildings? Do what ever you want. Stairs with 40cm raisers, sure. Ladder instead of the stairs, why not. A rope, you got it. Fireman pole, sure thing!

We'd love to be able to put big lush stairs in every  building, but it usually ends up crammed in a corner, with length limited by the room next to it, a corridor in front of it, and thread depth something like 26.75cm.

Regarding the Arrow; that's a annotation element. It's on the Annotate Tab/Symbol Panel.

Yup, but it just puts that same family (built in "Fixed Up Direction Standard", I didn't do anything crazy to it), with the same problem.

[barthbradley]

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@Prvoime wrote:

@barthbradley 

Building codes govern tread depth and riser height, so I'm not really sure you mean by "forcefully cramming" stairs into an allotted space.

Not in my part of the world. Public buildings, yes. Private residential buildings? Do what ever you want. Stairs with 40cm raisers, sure. Ladder instead of the stairs, why not. A rope, you got it. Fireman pole, sure thing!

We'd love to be able to put big lush stairs in every  building, but it usually ends up crammed in a corner, with length limited by the room next to it, a corridor in front of it, and thread depth something like 26.75cm.

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Oh, I'm sorry, I thought we were talking about Revit Stairs, not ropes and ladders.  You know, BIM Software might be a bit overkill for your needs.   Just saying.  

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@Prvoime wrote:

@barthbradley 

Regarding the Arrow; that's a annotation element. It's on the Annotate Tab/Symbol Panel.

Yup, but it just puts that same family (built in "Fixed Up Direction Standard", I didn't do anything crazy to it), with the same problem.

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Asked and answered in Message #2.  Draw your own Arrow.  Oh, I forgot...you don't want to "manually place dumb objects".   Well, you don't seem to have any idea how Revit's Stair Arrow Family works anyways - that is, what makes it "smart" - so what does it matter? Besides, is a Slope Arrow really necessary for a "Fireman Pole"?   

😉

[ToanDN]

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@Prvoime wrote:

Just one more question regarding this. In cases as this existing stairs I'm drawing, when one run has treads one depth and another run treads different depth, then stairs by sketch is the best approach, right?

Again, start with a stair by components, draw basic runs and landings, then convert them to sketch to modify boundary and riser lines to custom shape and custom tread depths.  This saves you from manually calculate how many steps you need if you create the stair By sketch from the get go.

This example below is a stair by components then convert runs to sketch.

This just puts that same family (built in "Fixed Up Direction Standard", I didn't do anything crazy to it), with the same problem.

I don't usually have problems with stair path arrows but if you can share your file then we will see.

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[Prvoime]

@barthbradley 

Oh, I'm sorry, I thought we were talking about Revit Stairs, not ropes and ladders. You know, BIM Software might be a bit overkill for your needs. Just saying.

I'm sorry that things here are done differently and that we have to do stairs that aren't up to code of your country. I'm so sorry I wasn't born in the same part of the world as you, definitely my mistake.

Look, if you know and want to help, I'll welcome the help. If my questions bother you so much, feel free to skip the post. I've been nothing but civilized and just want to learn. No need for random animosity or borderline racism.

Asked and answered in Message #2. Draw your own Arrow. Oh, I forgot...you don't want to "manually place dumb objects". Well, you don't seem to have any idea how Revit's Stair Arrow Family works anyways - that is, what makes it "smart" - so what does it matter? 

There is nothing special that I can see or learn about stair path that would help me neither here:

https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/revit/learn-explore/caas/CloudHelp/cloudhelp/2020/ENU/Revit-M...

nor here:

https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/revit/learn-explore/caas/CloudHelp/cloudhelp/2020/ENU/Revit-M...

Annotate - stair path does indeed place exactly the same stair path family that you get when drawing the stairs. With the same problem.

[Prvoime]

@ToanDN 

I don't usually have problems with stair path arrows but if you can share your file then we will see.

I did, it's in the firs post.

(Those stairs are insane!)

[barthbradley]

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@Prvoime wrote:

I'm sorry... I'm so sorry 

No worries. All's good. Apologies accepted.  

Have a great rest of your day! 

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