Several buildings--different orientations--same site

[Eduardo2012]

Hello, I've searched for this and found related answers dating back to 2008, but still haven't found what I'm looking for.

I have one site with different buildings, each has its own orientation, I would like someone to help me start this project on the right track and to guide me on what the BEST PRACTICES would be.

1.-I already traced boundary lines. I kept the default survey point and project base point so my site is correctly drawn according to true north.

2.-I have rotated the crop boundary so I can confortably work with the site plan view. True north hasn't moved, just the view orientation. (so far so good?)

3.-I need to model and place the several buildings on the site, various waterfront docks, landscaping elements such as planters, a swimming pool, exterior furniture, etc. What's the best practice of doing this, one single file or several files linked?

4.-If linking files is the best, to what extent should the site plan be developed? (in terms of landscaping, docks, outdoor furniture, etc) And to what extent should elements be linked into it

5.-If I work each building in a separate file, how should I handle true north for each of these files? Should I just start modelling with each file's default north, OR each building´s file true north must be oriented as they are supposed to appear in the site  model?

6.-Is this where shared coordinates come in? So much I have read and researched about it, I still don't understand how this works.

7.-How is the insertion and rotation of the buildings handled at the moment of linking? Since Revit doesn't use coordinates, I still can't figure out this "internal coordinates" issue.

8.-Whenever I wish to create views at a larger scale from my site (for exmpl-- one portion of the dock or the main yard) how should I go about this? I still don't get how and when to use the three options of duplicating views (plain, with detailing, dependent).

If you please could share with me all the tips and tricks. I took beginner and "advanced" DVD Revit lessons, I've read the wikihelp (it's very limited), and I'm reading a 1090 page book on Revit Arch 2013........and still, every single day I get stuck in Revit's complexities and non-straightforward way of working. With so much time invested and knowledge involved, Mastering Revit is turning almost into a PhD for me!!!

I would really appreciate help, thanks in advance.

[Alfredo_Medina · Accepted solution]

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@Eduardo2012 wrote:
(...)

1.-I already traced boundary lines. I kept the default survey point and project base point so my site is correctly drawn according to true north.

Sounds fine.

2.-I have rotated the crop boundary so I can confortably work with the site plan view. True north hasn't moved, just the view orientation. (so far so good?)

It is not a good idea to rotate the crop boundary. Use Project North instead.

3.-I need to model and place the several buildings on the site, various waterfront docks, landscaping elements such as planters, a swimming pool, exterior furniture, etc. What's the best practice of doing this, one single file or several files linked?

For the buildings, links. For the exterior landscape elements, they could be modeled in the same file where you have the complete site.

4.-If linking files is the best, to what extent should the site plan be developed? (in terms of landscaping, docks, outdoor furniture, etc) And to what extent should elements be linked into it

Same as previous comment.

5.-If I work each building in a separate file, how should I handle true north for each of these files? Should I just start modelling with each file's default north, OR each building´s file true north must be oriented as they are supposed to appear in the site  model?

Buildings in their own file can be modeled in a default position, and then, after each building file is linked into  a Site file, you assign a location to each link in the Site file. Once the Site file is saved with the different locations, those locations are saved back into the building's file. So, the Site file becomes the generator of each building file's location.

6.-Is this where shared coordinates come in? So much I have read and researched about it, I still don't understand how this works.

Yes, it is related. A model has 3 coordinates systems. The coordinates of the view itself, or internal; the coordinates of the project point (for the building), and the coordinates of the survey point (for the site).

7.-How is the insertion and rotation of the buildings handled at the moment of linking? Since Revit doesn't use coordinates, I still can't figure out this "internal coordinates" issue.

Same as comment # 5.

8.-Whenever I wish to create views at a larger scale from my site (for exmpl-- one portion of the dock or the main yard) how should I go about this? I still don't get how and when to use the three options of duplicating views (plain, with detailing, dependent).

If you wish to enlarge a portion of the large site, to show it in more detail, use a callout. Then, open the view generated by the callout. But, only if it is something that involves site. If it is just an enlarged portion of the interior of the building, do callouts in the building file, not in the site.

If you please could share with me all the tips and tricks. I took beginner and "advanced" DVD Revit lessons, I've read the wikihelp (it's very limited), and I'm reading a 1090 page book on Revit Arch 2013........and still, every single day I get stuck in Revit's complexities and non-straightforward way of working. With so much time invested and knowledge involved, Mastering Revit is turning almost into a PhD for me!!!

All the tips and tricks? Is there such a list of all of them?

I would really appreciate help, thanks in advance.

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[Eduardo2012]

Thanks a lot for your contribution Alfredo and for being patient enough to answer an 8 question post!!!

I'll have to dive deep research into the way of sharing coordinates and using true north.

One last question if you don't mind....

How am I going to manage the sheets (sheet list, sheet references, etc etc) if I have separate files, one for the site and several others for the buildings?

[Alfredo_Medina]

About the sheets, that can be managed from the Site file. But it could be managed from each model's file as well. It depends on how the project is organized.

[Eduardo2012]

Hi again Alfredo. About item 2, why don't you recommend rotating the crop view? This seems to work fine because I have already tagged boundary lines and everything stays in place. True north stays in place while I get my view orthogonal to the screen. I would like to know why you don't recommend it.

On the other hand, I started over again and tried to rotate project north as you suggested, but I just can't seem to get it right. First problem, the Rotate Project North tool only gives me the options for 90, 180 degrees and pick a line or plane. Since the rotation is an odd angle I tried to use a horizontal detail line as reference, but the rotation I get doesn't really help to align anything to that line, it rotates to strange directions I just can´'t understand. Why doesn't this tool give me the option of entering an angle manually?

Second problem, checking the boundary line tags, it turns out that this project north rotation tool is actually rotating the MODEL!!!!! Tags indicate a change in angle in relation to true north. For some reason this "rotate project north" tool is not doing that, its rotating everything in the model away from it's true north relationship.

Now, I tried another method: I went to the Project Base Point properties and in the "Angle to true north" cell I specified the rotation angle I need.....an this worked fine!! Afterwards I tagged the boundary lines and the datum is correct in relation to true north. I can then have my views aligned to screen, and I can have a separate site plan oriented to true north just for reference. What do you think about this THIRD option?

So as you can see I'm really messed up with all these concepts because I'm finding things working the opposite of how they should, and....as I'll always say....wikihelp is no help at all, there's no good Revit user's guide.

[Alfredo_Medina]

Well, rotating the crop region is fine in cases where one of your views would not fit on a sheet if it was oriented in another way. But doing that in lieu of using Project North & True North is not a good idea. If you care about using  an accurate location and orientation, accurate shadows, and you link consultant's models in your models, and they link your model in theirs, use Project North and True North, and an accurate geographic location.

[Alfredo_Medina]

Hey, Eduardo, I just realized that you are the same person who was reading and posting comments and questions on the blog articles of mine that were published in the Wiki-Help, the parametric helix with multiple loops , and the adaptive curved railing.

What a nice surprise. So, you found me here. Nice to "see" you again.  🙂

[Eduardo2012]

Yes that's me, ha ha. So, in the end you didn't tell me what you think about my Project North mess-ups. The tool rotates the whole model, I never expected that. I wish we could use and save UCS systems like in Autocad so I could work and show all the different orientations involved in this project.

By the way, I checked out your consulting site, excellent idea of yours!!  If things go well and if I get assigned the next stage of this project, I will consider paying for the services you offer in your website. I will definitely need it!!!  Cause this will be my first All-Revit project. In the past few months I've been making Autocad-Revit hybrids because I've found so many obstacles in Revit, so much time consumed impossible to afford. But now I'm determined to start and finish my next project in Revit.

[Alfredo_Medina]

Thank you, Eduardo.

Well, Project North and True North should be used carefully. It's not too complicated. Project North is the most comfortable orientation that you can find to draw your project on the screen, and True North is the actual orientation of the site with the North of the world. If you combine that with the actual geographic location, then you can obtain true lighting, shading, and weather conditions. Once you set up True North, you can return your view to Project North, no problem. But do not ever try to replace all that with simply rotating the Crop Region !!!

Thank you for your words about my idea of the consulting forum. It's especially designed for offices or individuals who require permanent assistance with their projects or families, and who do not have a BIM manager or consultant available at the office or nearby.

[fosland1]

I would say the only time to rotate crop box regions or scope boxes in lieu of correctly rotating to project north, would be if your building has multiple angles and therefore, multiple "project norths". Am I correct in stating this?

[JinliangLDG]

We are in the situation that there are 3-5 buildings in the same revit file with different orientations. Since Revit can only have one project north, after assigning the project north for the main building, we have to rotate the rest of the accessory structures' floor plan views to set them correctly. Would like to know if someone has better solutions. Not sure why there is not a specific tool for view rotation. View orientation is important for architectural drawings. Thank you ahead!

[ToanDN]

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@JinliangLDG wrote:

We are in the situation that there are 3-5 buildings in the same revit file with different orientations. Since Revit can only have one project north, after assigning the project north for the main building, we have to rotate the rest of the accessory structures' floor plan views to set them correctly. Would like to know if someone has better solutions. Not sure why there is not a specific tool for view rotation. View orientation is important for architectural drawings. Thank you ahead!

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Model each building in its own file.  Link them in a site file, move, rotate, elevate them to the correct location, then publish coordinates. 

If you are using BIM360, then do the other way around, link the site file to each building file, move, rotate, elevate the site link to the correct location, then acquire coordinates.

[JinliangLDG]

Thank you for your immediate response ToanDN. Really appreciated!! May I know what is "publish coordinates"? It's my first time hearing t...

[ToanDN]

https://help.autodesk.com/view/RVT/2023/ENU/?guid=GUID-DD00B14D-891D-42A1-BE79-E75B0C69E122