Scaling symbols

[m-de-lange]

Hello,

I'm having an issue with scaling a symbol of one of my partially self made families.

I loaded an Generic model 'symbol' from another family into mine.

I'm aware that it's usual to use a Generic Annotation family as symbol, since it automatically scales with the scale settings of your view template.

However i'd very much like to use this Generic Model symbol for my family.

Apperantly the scaling doesn't work for this symbol via the view template. Instead it has it's own two scaling parameters, 1 : 100 and 1 : 50. 

Would it be possible to link the family scaling parameter to the view template scaling parameter? Or am i really forced to use a generic annotation family for proper symbols?

I am unable to upload the families here directly so they are in this Wetransfer link:

https://we.tl/t-GiJyE0l5e9

[Zsolt.Varga]

Hi @m-de-lange ,

What exactly are the aspects in the disfavour of using a generic annotation family?

Regards, 

[m-de-lange]

No disfavour at all, i'm just trying to understand.

This family symbol came from Cadac The Modus, we see them as professional family builders.

I'd like to use this symbol as it has many options available, parameter-wise.

Though i have trouble using it as it doesn't scale with the view template scaling parameter.

[Zsolt.Varga]

Hi @m-de-lange ,

Thanks for your quick response. 

I´ll take a look at the family and let you know what I found.

Thanks for your patience, while I am working on this.

Best regards, 

[Zsolt.Varga · Accepted solution]

Hi @m-de-lange ,

I opened the families and played around with them quickly.

I believe, you will need to regenerate the family using the generic annotation family template, if you want the symbol to scale according to the view scale of a project.

The logic behind it is: 

Annotations should be able to adjust to the scale of the views, while it would be definitely an undesirable program behavior if model geometry would change its size depending on the scale of a certain view. Remember: Model Geometry is displayed in all views, while annotations are connected to a certain view only.

That´s also the reason, why Revit won´t allow you to load a non-annotation family as a nested family in a generic annotation family (or generic annotation family template) - if you´d try to do so, it will give you a warning:

"Only the annotation families can be loaded into annotation families."

I hope this information clarifies the program behavior and helps you, even though I understand, that you might have wished for some better news.

Best regards,

[JJRevitUser]

This is one of the clearest answers I think I have seen in the forums, & from an autodesk memeber. Mind answering a special situation about revit pipe accessory annotation scale parameter?

[jimjr]

How would one prevent annotations within a family from scaling according to view scale? We prepare our disciplines MEP rough-in plans at 1/4"=1' 0". Our MEP families contain annotations drawn for proper sizing at 1/4 inch scale. However, I'm seeing that during meetings our architectural clients have our model linked to theirs, but their view is at 1/8"=1'0" scale. Our annotations appear twice their normal size and disrupt their view. Turning off the MEP family category entirely is a drastic fix. Is there a way to update our annotation so that they do not scale?

[RobDraw]

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@jimjr wrote:

How would one prevent annotations within a family from scaling according to view scale? We prepare our disciplines MEP rough-in plans at 1/4"=1' 0". Our MEP families contain annotations drawn for proper sizing at 1/4 inch scale. However, I'm seeing that during meetings our architectural clients have our model linked to theirs, but their view is at 1/8"=1'0" scale. Our annotations appear twice their normal size and disrupt their view. Turning off the MEP family category entirely is a drastic fix. Is there a way to update our annotation so that they do not scale?

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The architect should probably consider not using "By Linked View" if the annotation symbols interfere with their drawings. On the other hand, if it is required, you will have to set-up views dedicated for the architect to use at 1/8" scale.

[Josiah_A]

I have the same question.  I know it goes against the usual way in which Annotative symbols are meant to be used, but I want one annotative family in particular to NOT scale.  This is because it has a masking region that needs to mask over some linework in the middle of a light fixture model family.  I have not been able to get the Annotat > Detail > Masking Region element to hide this same linework.  (If you know a way to remedy that, I would appreciate that as well.)  Thank you. 

[mhiserZFHXS]

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@Josiah_A wrote:

I have the same question.  I know it goes against the usual way in which Annotative symbols are meant to be used, but I want one annotative family in particular to NOT scale.  This is because it has a masking region that needs to mask over some linework in the middle of a light fixture model family.  I have not been able to get the Annotat > Detail > Masking Region element to hide this same linework.  (If you know a way to remedy that, I would appreciate that as well.)  Thank you. 

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This was said to be a new feature in R24 and I just tested it out. You can now place a 2D object, such as a masking region, in a 3D model and adjust its draw order. Draw it over the lines you want to cover, bring it to the front, and voila.

So if you're stuck in R23 or earlier, sorry. But this issue has now been fixed.

[RobDraw]

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@mhiserZFHXS wrote:
So if you're stuck in R23 or earlier, sorry. But this issue has now been fixed.

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It's still not "fixed" for earlier versions... It's just a new feature for '23.

[mhiserZFHXS]

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@RobDraw wrote:

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@mhiserZFHXS wrote:
So if you're stuck in R23 or earlier, sorry. But this issue has now been fixed.

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It's still not "fixed" for earlier versions... It's just a new feature for '23.

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Yea, I could have been more clear. Fixed in R24 and beyond. Unless your saying a "new feature" is different than a "fix", which, okay, semantics.

[RobDraw]

IMHO, it's added functionality. It wasn't broken. 

[mhiserZFHXS]

👍

[CathyChoi_BIM]

the best way, not use these annotation family, they are "dead" symbol, you should use detail item always.

[ggumi10268]

I use annotation symbol for my light fixture family as it will always show in the RCP/FP even when the fixture is in an angle. However, it will scale up/down in plan views (the drawings are in different scale unfortunately). Is there any alternatives of not using annotation symbol in this case? 

[mhiserZFHXS]

No. This is not the purpose of annotations.

First, 99% of people here will want you to understand that annotations do not scale. They are always the same size. It is the view around it that gets larger or smaller.

Second, you should really be using a model element to show actual objects. That way, it exists within space in a model. It can be scheduled (accurately) and it will show in other views. That said, you can create a model element using only 2D lines if you so desire, though its obviously losing some functionality.

If you INSIST on having your lighting fixtures being single-view components, but want them to scale, then you'll want to recreate them as detail components rather than symbols. But again, this is not what I would recommend.

[ggumi10268]

Thanks. I understand that annotation symbols do not scale but to keep them in the same size respective to drawing sheets.

I have the lighting fixtures modeled in 3D but somehow it was not shown on floor plan in some cases so I added detail lines in the lighting fixture family too. One thing that detail line is not the optimal is that it will show in 3D views as well and I don't want to see the detail line in my 3D views as well as other disciplines' 3D views. 

[mhiserZFHXS]

Detail lines wouldn't show in 3D, but model lines would. You can convert model lines to detail lines if that's the issue.

[SteveKStafford]

Is this an issue of a lighting fixture not being visible in a floor plan because it is above the cut plane of the view but you want it visible in a floor plan vs a ceiling plan? Are you familiar with the "invisible line" trick to get a family that is entirely above the cut plane to provide something to intersect with the view's cut plane so Revit can "see" it? If not, adding a vertical <invisible line> to the family from the level up to the fixture will do that.