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Revit Phasing for renovated elements

22 ANTWORTEN 22
Antworten
Nachricht 1 von 23
bd2427
1991 Aufrufe, 22 Antworten

Revit Phasing for renovated elements

We are struggling a lot on phasing in our renovation project. This is a project with existing conditions, and partially renovation, and different phases of construction and demolition while maintaining normal function of the building, so there's temporary structures too.

 

So, long story short. We are trying to do 2 things in 2 sets of drawings. 

 

Model Structure:

Existing condition Model

New construction Model (Main model where all drawings are generated)

 

Phasing: 

Existing

Demolition 1

Demolition 2

 

Graphic Goals:

1. For Demolition Plans, Elevations. Existing to Remain as Overridden, Existing to Renovate as 'By Category' no overrides, Demolition 1 as 'Demolished' 

2. For Regular A plans, elevations. Existing to Remain as Overridden, Existing to Renovate as 'By Category' no overrides, New as 'By Category' no overrides.

 

We can get all the existing and new and demolition correct but the problem is really the existing to Renovate part. Is there a way that we can get them shown as 'new elements' but in both demolition plans and regular plans. 

 

We thought of doing filters. but then is there other ways to do it just through phasing or any other insights are greatly appreciated!!

 

22 ANTWORTEN 22
Nachricht 2 von 23
Ilic.Andrej
als Antwort auf: bd2427

You can easily do this just by creating a new phase. 

 

1.jpg2.jpg



Andrej Ilić

phonetical: ændreɪ ilich
MSc Arch

Autodesk Expert Elite Alumni

Nachricht 3 von 23
cbcarch
als Antwort auf: bd2427

Not exactly sure how you need the graphics to display, but---

 

You need another Phase for Renovation.

 

Try using Phase Filters (under View Properties) in your views that are set to "Show All". Then adjust, with "Show Previous & New", "Show Previous & Demo", etc.

 

Also, make sure Phase Mapping is set up correctly in both models; look here:

 

https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/revit-products/learn-explore/caas/CloudHelp/cloudhelp/2017/EN...

Cliff B. Collins
Registered Architect The Lamar Johnson Collaborative Architects-St. Louis, MO
Nachricht 4 von 23
bd2427
als Antwort auf: cbcarch

Thank you for your suggestion.

 

The thing is The RENOVATION is not really always going to be recognized as Existing in order to have demolished elements as demolished. Because the phase filter will only have 'new' 'existing' 'demolished' 'temporary' no matter what because that's a relative relationship other than a absolute property of any phase.

 

The hard part of this is that, if you want your RENOVATION before DEMO 1, then to have elements that are demolished in DEMO 1, then you will always have your views to be at DEMO 1 phase which recognize RENOVATION phase as existing. so it will always override it with whatever graphic overrides you setup. 

 

Please let me know if it makes sense?

Nachricht 5 von 23
cbcarch
als Antwort auf: bd2427

Best practice in Revit, is to NOT have Phases for Demo. ( Note that in Revit, Phases are NOT a 1:1 verbatim with "real world/construction sequences/"phases".)

 

So, establish Existing, New Construction, and your own "Renovation", Phases etc.(or whatever you would like to name them)--and then Demo the items in those Phases.

 

This will help you to be able to get your views to display how you want.

 

I'm sure you may already have set up the Demo Phases in Revit, but you should be able to rename them and get it working.

Cliff B. Collins
Registered Architect The Lamar Johnson Collaborative Architects-St. Louis, MO
Nachricht 6 von 23
ToanDN
als Antwort auf: bd2427

What exactly is "Existing to renovate"?  

Nachricht 7 von 23
bd2427
als Antwort auf: cbcarch

Well. There are Demo phases or you can call it Construction 1 or construction 2 for purposes of allowing the building to be demolished and constructed at different times for different drawings.

 

The RENO phase are elements that are Phase Created: Existing. Phase Demolished: Never. But they are worked on so they need to be shown as different as the 'existing to remain' elements. I know its a really complicated process, but we are trying to do it in the simplest but global way...

Nachricht 8 von 23
bd2427
als Antwort auf: ToanDN

The RENO phase are elements that are Phase Created: Existing. Phase Demolished: Never. But they are worked on so they need to be shown as different as the 'existing to remain' elements. I know its a really complicated process, but we are trying to do it in the simplest but global way...

Nachricht 9 von 23
ToanDN
als Antwort auf: bd2427


@bd2427 wrote:

The RENO phase are elements that are Phase Created: Existing. Phase Demolished: Never. But they are worked on so they need to be shown as different as the 'existing to remain' elements. I know its a really complicated process, but we are trying to do it in the simplest but global way...


Revit phase filters only understand existing to remain, existing to be demolished, new, and temporary.  Existing to be renovated is technically existing to be demolished and replaced with new.  So to distinguish them graphically, you have to go beyond phase graphic overrides and implement view filters.

Nachricht 10 von 23
Ilic.Andrej
als Antwort auf: bd2427


@bd2427wrote:

 

 

Graphic Goals:

1. For Demolition Plans, Elevations. Existing to Remain as Overridden, Existing to Renovate as 'By Category' no overrides, Demolition 1 as 'Demolished' 

2. For Regular A plans, elevations. Existing to Remain as Overridden, Existing to Renovate as 'By Category' no overrides, New as 'By Category' no overrides.

  


Here we see the limitations of Revit phasing concept. @bd2427 needs to display three phases all at once.

 

You need to overlap two views and put that on a sheet.

 

Use three phases, Existing, Renovation and New Construction

 

1. For Demolition Plans. 

 

    View A: Set Renovation to be active. Override "Existing". "New Construction" is "By Category".

    View B: Set New Construction to be active. "Do Not Display" all except "Demolished". "Demolished" is overridden. (so you need to demolish in this phase, but to do that you will need another filter)

 

2. For Regular A Plans:

 

    View A: Set Renovation to be active. Override "Existing". "New Construction" is "By Category".

    View B: Set New Construction to be active. "Do Not Display" all except "New Construction". "New Construction" is "By Category".



Andrej Ilić

phonetical: ændreɪ ilich
MSc Arch

Autodesk Expert Elite Alumni

Nachricht 11 von 23
Ilic.Andrej
als Antwort auf: bd2427

@bd2427 I just came up with something that can save you from hassle.

 

Forget about phases. Just use two default phases (Existing and New Construction) like all people do.

 

Then, to differentiate Existing to Remain from Existing to Renovate, use save selection tool (manage/selection/save or edit). Basically, you save the selection of all existing elements that need to be overridden. Then you use selection filter to graphically override those elements. You can add this selection filter to view templates.

 

 

Untitled-1.jpg

 

 

 

 

P.s. I remembered this, because this is how we give surface transparency to the demolished elements (phasing cant do it).

 

 

 



Andrej Ilić

phonetical: ændreɪ ilich
MSc Arch

Autodesk Expert Elite Alumni

Nachricht 12 von 23
bd2427
als Antwort auf: Ilic.Andrej

Thank you very much for the response! Yeah. I wondered if we could only be using filters. 

 

Your suggestion of using a selection filter is interesting and havent thought of. One thing about that is then that basically means its a static selection that wont be updated if you add more elements.

 

Nachricht 13 von 23
Ilic.Andrej
als Antwort auf: bd2427

When you add more elements, you can always edit the saved selection. I'm using this all the time. For example, if I decide to demolish an element, I edit the selection named "Demo" and just add elements. After that, I don't have to worry about anything. This is how i give surface transparency to the demolished elements.



Andrej Ilić

phonetical: ændreɪ ilich
MSc Arch

Autodesk Expert Elite Alumni

Nachricht 14 von 23
ToanDN
als Antwort auf: bd2427

I would add some text such as "To be Renovated" to the Comments field of those elements to drive the View Filter criteria.  

Nachricht 15 von 23
Ilic.Andrej
als Antwort auf: ToanDN


@ToanDNwrote:

I would add some text such as "To be Renovated" to the Comments field of those elements to drive the View Filter criteria.  


I like that even more. He doesn't need to write "To be Renovated" again and again cause Revit gives that drop-down menu.



Andrej Ilić

phonetical: ændreɪ ilich
MSc Arch

Autodesk Expert Elite Alumni

Nachricht 16 von 23
bd2427
als Antwort auf: Ilic.Andrej

I dont know about the selection filter. It may require more attention that assigning things to a 'existed' 'embedded parameter or, 'worksets' or even shared parameter to do that since if its already embedded parameter that means you can always schedule it and look into the ones that you have missed and reassign or track them basically when you are dealing with multiple users working on the same file.

Nachricht 17 von 23
Ilic.Andrej
als Antwort auf: bd2427

Selection filter just helps to create a graphical representation....But, it doesn't stop you from using three phases or whatever suits you for scheduling, tracking....



Andrej Ilić

phonetical: ændreɪ ilich
MSc Arch

Autodesk Expert Elite Alumni

Nachricht 18 von 23
RobDraw
als Antwort auf: cbcarch


@cbcarchwrote:

Best practice in Revit, is to NOT have Phases for Demo. ( Note that in Revit, Phases are NOT a 1:1 verbatim with "real world/construction sequences/"phases".)


The problem with this is that Revit OOTB treats Demo as new work. Not such a good thing in multi phase projects that include temporary work. There are multiple demo phases that need to be represented.


Rob

Drafting is a breeze and Revit doesn't always work the way you think it should.
Nachricht 19 von 23
bd2427
als Antwort auf: Ilic.Andrej

just from a project management point of view, selection filter may be hard to keep track of because you can't expect all of your team members to always remembers to put things into this selection group. And instead if its a parameter that they can always assign to it would be eaiser for multi-user environment to also, get a schedule of things that share the same shared parameter that can be used for all kinds of schedules.

 

Anyways, selection filter doesnt work for linked model anyways. 

 

I guess the only option that leave us is to do shared parameters. Am I correct?

 

Thanks!

Nachricht 20 von 23
cbcarch
als Antwort auf: bd2427

Filters are really not intended for Phasing/Existing to Remain/Demo/New Construction.

 

I think you may end up doing a lot more "manual" work with that method, versus using Phases which automates the process including change management and graphics in all views.

 

Just my 2 c worth.

Cliff B. Collins
Registered Architect The Lamar Johnson Collaborative Architects-St. Louis, MO

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