Random Newbie Questions....

[payingtoomuch]

• Am I right in my thinking that nothing can exist in a model that does not have a view for it to be contained in? I'm talking things that I would draw or import. I also understand that things can be imported that have not been placed in the model and that families etc exist on their own. Just talking as a general rule.
• So, if that is correct then that would also mean that I can't draw anything without creating or selecting a view to place it in.
• And everything that is visible in a view has been drawn in that view with the exception of if an underlay or view range has been activated (and these are not selectable unless I activate "select underlay elements".
• So, when I look at a view I know exactly what has been drawn in that view because it is selectable.... I guess unless it has been locked somehow.
• So, if I want to know everything that has been drawn or imported into and placed in my model then all I have to do is open every view and look at what is there.
  • Except VG overrides could have been placed on the view
  • And except that the view could be cropped
  • And except that potentially a different view template has been assigned that was originally associated for the view
  • And except that items in the view could have been hidden
• So, if I really want to know everything that has been drawn or imported into my model then all I really have to do is open each view and.....
  
  • Deselect crop view
  • Select the lightbulb and Unhide everything
  • Type VG and expand all and select all
  • Select the associated View Template> expand all> select all
    • But if a different view template was assigned originally items could still be hidden I guess but not likely
  • As long as I do all of the above (and lets say I were to delete all the items that I found in my views after finding them) then there would be nothing that I (or anyone else) had drawn in the model, correct?
• And, If I really want to get rid of everything that has been drawn in any view then I just have to delete the view.
• So if i delete every view in the model then everything that has been drawn in the model is deleted.
• So, is there any way to see everything that is in the model without going through all of these steps? Kind of like Model space in autocad? Pretty much open model space, zoom extents, Layon, Laythaw, Unhide, Ctrl A, delete and everything is gone that has been drawn?

[L.Maas]

I see you ask many questions in the forums. As you mention yourself you are a newbie. No problem with that. However this forum is not the place to give a full course of Revit. It is more to help with specific questions.

I would advise to start with some basic training course (books, video courses, classical).

Then you would learn about the core concepts of Revit and it will become much more clear how it operates.

This will be a much more faster and efficient way to get to know Revit.

After that you will still run into issues and then the forums can be a great place to help you.

[payingtoomuch]

Have four books sitting on my desk right now that I'm referencing. You probably know most of them. I've been through some trainings as well in the past. Just so you know I've been in and out of revit for periods of time (some longer than others) over the last 15 years or so and probably have 6 or so books from older versions as well. I've been through them all at different points. I know I ask a lot of questions but I think they are all relevant and not things that I've been able to locate in the forums or the books. That being said, your point is well taken. Hope I'm not wasting any ones time that is helping me get to the bottom of these questions or anyone browsing the forums.

[RobDraw]

You've got a huge problem with the premise that objects exist in views that they were created in. This is only true for annotation type objects. All model elements can be visible in any view and do not get deleted when views get deleted. Again, that is only true for annotation elements.

[payingtoomuch]

Actually, I think I know that on some level... the way I worded things I can see would lead you to believe otherwise.

My question to you would be is where is revits "model space" then? Yes, I recognize revit does not have a model space. But, if model elements can only be created in views (and they are accessible to other views yes), where do they live. I guess they live in the 3D sphere after thinking it through a little.

[payingtoomuch]

I kind of got to that place btw because most of the actual modeling is done in 2d views. Regardless, your point is well taken and thanks for calling me out on it.

[L.Maas]

Yeah, Revit can be confusing. RobDraw is right about annotation and model elements.

I often try to explain it like this....

Revit makes a big distinction between 2D and 3D elements.

3D elements are always "visible" (I come back to this) in the project. 2D elements are only visible in the view you create them in.

This has the following consequences. If I draw some 2D elements in a view and then place some 3D elements in that same view and then delete that view. Then those 2D elements are gone from the project. However the 3D elements are still there in the project.

A normal view (e.g 3D, floor/ceiling plan, sections) is like a camera you place somewhere and point it at something

Then you will see the 3D elements it is looking at and that fall in the camera frame.

So why you might see some 3D elements...or not. It is not in the frame, It is behind something in the frame or you set special settings to hide things. For this Revit has many tools (e.g visibility graphics overrides, phasing, manual hide, discipline, using 2D elements to mask it out).

You can see that Revit makes a big distinction between 2D elements and 3D elements when you look at lines. Revit knows model lines and detail lines. While a line is not a 3D shape Revit can use model lines to make sure that they will be visible in all views.

So if you keep the camera idea in mind then it makes sense. You need something like a camera to be able to place elements (otherwise you would not know what you are doing). 2D annotations are like writing on the lens of the camera. Removing the camera means those annotations are gone but the 3D elements are still standing there

Point a new camera and you will see those 3D objects. Remove the 3D object and you can place as many cameras as you want you will not see it anymore.

So if you want to see everything (3D elements) that has been modelled then place a new camera (view) and make sure that everything is in view. Even then you still will not see things that are behind other objects from that point of view (not talking about wireframe mode).

Creating a new (3D) view is the best way to make sure that most things are visible. Even then some things might not be visible. Things like design options, open/closed worksets, unloaded linked files, discipline and so on still have an impact.

I hope this makes things a little but clearer (or more confusing?). There are of course plenty of nuances and exceptions here and there.

[payingtoomuch]

Thanks L. Mass for your insight. The analogies definitely help with getting my head more wrapped around things.

"So if you want to see everything (3D elements) that has been modelled then place a new camera (view) and make sure that everything is in view". This is especially important to me. Makes good sense and for whatever reason, I hadn't considered this approach to the dilemma!

So, as I think things through, Revits equivalent to model space seems to be where the 3D model lives. And the views (to use another autocad analogy) are basically viewports that look at different viewpoints of the model.

Broadly wondering....

Wonder why (other than the 2d elements) everthing couldn't be modeled in the 3D space? Or, maybe it can be. It's just that it's more convenient to use the layouts to model because the various views are set up to look at the model at appropriate locations.

Meaning. Technically, If I were in 3D space I could flip to top/ bottom or whatever view and crop the view..... even potentially at a particular level (maybe) and draw in plan view (or section view) in the 3D space just like I do in any particular "real" revit view.

OK. Enough for now. Don't need to be overthinking these things. Just all seems to make a little more sense now. Thanks for your help.

[mhiserZFHXS]

You still need to stop thinking about things living in certain views. Its a model, not unlike building a physical model. It doesn't matter what view you place a model component in (i.e. not an annotation).

The only views where this isn't the case are drafting views and legends.

[payingtoomuch]

I think I'm on board with what you're saying. Apologies if I'm somehow not making that clear. My current understanding is that none of the actual 3d model elements live in a view. They are the model and a model of the building. The views are just used to extrapolate information, view the model and make working on the model easier- and use to add information about the model to the sheets.

Hopefully this is what you are getting at.

[Lance.Coffey]

Placing elements in plan views, can be easier because Revit can make assumptions about placement. Revit will associate the element with the level associated with the view (if placing level hosted elements).

If you've encountered the pick a plane dialog when trying to place elements in an elevation/section view, this is because in these views there isn't a level that the element can be associated to, instead the workplane needs to be explicitly defined.

Additionally, if you try to place elements in a 3D view, where there is a small angle to the workplane, and you miss the snap-point, then the element could be placed hundreds or thousands of units away from the expected location (if this is too far >10-20 miles, geometric accuracy is impaired).

Here is a structure that may help as a framework to think on where elements live:

• Annotation/drafting (2d) elements live in the view they were created (this could be a drafting view or a plan view).
• Model geometry (3D) elements are hosted to one of the following:
  • Level
  • Workplane (this could be a face, a reference plane, etc.)
  • Another element (like doors, windows, etc.).

 For example, deleting a floor plan associated with Level 1, won't delete the elements hosted to the level, but if you delete Level 1, then the view, and the elements hosted to the level will be deleted.

[payingtoomuch]

Hey Lance. What you're describing would be my understanding. As far as the trying to actually do all the modeling in 3D goes I'm hearing your point and about the concerns with properly locating things. Ever chased lines in autocad that are not perfectly horizontal? If so, then you know how I can relate to problems working there way through the entire model if you're not precise.