Put building grid BEHIND other items

[NigelParsons4560]

Hello,

How do I set the building grid to be underneath columns and other structures instead of on top?

[RobDraw]

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@Anonymouswrote:

I think that's a bad attitude.  We are all paying obscene amounts of money for this program and, presumably, Autodesk wants to make a program that is useful to it's customers.  It is up to us to make a fuss about it so they are aware of the issues.  They can't really say they aren't aware of how useful features like this are, because they also make another program, AutoCAD, that handles many things like this very well.

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If Revit is known to have graphic issues, how can that be a bad attitude?

AutoCAD also had/has it's share of graphic issues that have to be dealt with. It still struggles with PDFs. "Basic functionality"? Luckily, most of them are not a problem with the software but rather in the processing of the output, but that wasn't always the case. 

[Karol_Piroska]

@RobDraw
I dont want to really jump into this discussion, I did discuss this before. But if you ask what the issue is then try to ask yourself a simple question: What is more important? Gridlines/levels or actual building elements? In my opinion gridlines, levels, hatch/filled region etc etc are all secondary object there to help. As soon as these cover outlines of elements (outlines of walls, beams, edges of slabs, columns, etc etc) it becomes an issue.
I'm not a software developer and appreciate the work that has been done with Revit because if used efficiently it has the potential of saving huge sums of time and money. But having said that, some "basic" functionality as draw/element order and numerous others that are not available can be frustrating at times. And Autodesk does not seem to listen -  it s the "not enough people voted for that idea" thing. (as if they had at least some 1% of overall users voting here lol)

[RobDraw]

Let's see some examples of why this prevents you, or anyone else, from producing quality documents.

[Karol_Piroska]

@RobDraw

This is not about not being able to produce quality documents, but how long certain things take or how many workarounds you need (and no this is not some anonymous person expressing his opinion. I believe there were few conferences related to produce better looking documents from revit). You can produce quality documents in Autocad or simply drawing by hand, but there is a very good reason why we use it now only for specific tasks. 

[RobDraw]

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@Karol_Piroskawrote:

@RobDraw

This is not about not being able to produce quality documents, but how long certain things take or how many workarounds you need (and no this is not some anonymous person expressing his opinion. I believe there were few conferences related to produce better looking documents from revit). You can produce quality documents in Autocad or simply drawing by hand, but there is a very good reason why we use it now only for specific tasks. 

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You must be responding to a different thread as this one is about how grid lines prevent some from producing quality documents, but I've yet to see any examples.

[NigelParsons4560]

You must be responding to a different thread as this one is about how grid lines prevent some from producing quality documents, but I've yet to see any examples.

Exactly the attitude that sent me looking for alternate BIM software in the first place.

[NigelParsons4560]

I think that's a bad attitude.  We are all paying obscene amounts of money for this program and, presumably, Autodesk wants to make a program that is useful to it's customers.  It is up to us to make a fuss about it so they are aware of the issues.  They can't really say they aren't aware of how useful features like this are, because they also make another program, AutoCAD, that handles many things like this very well.

Ben,

I can't agree with you more.

[loboarch]

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@Anonymous wrote:

Unless I am able to get your method to work, I think my only option would be to use grid lines with a gap, adjust the gap to the outermost surface of the exterior walls (unfortunately the grid gap adjustment doesn't snap), then draw in the grid lines with model or detail lines where the building doubles back on itself (where there are openings within the building perimeter).  Any better ideas?

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You could create gridlines with a gap and then add some model lines to "replace" the center section of a gridline. Now align/lock the model lines to the gridlines with gaps.  Now any elements you place that overlap the gridline will hide the gridline. Not super effecient, but gridlines are not somethign you are adding all the time to a project, so it is pretty low frequency. Not completly "automatic" but not all that bad if this kind of graphic look is important to you. In AutoCAD you probably have to do about the same amount of manipulation to achieve the look.

Here is an example showing columns, walls, and a table all hiding gridlines behind them.

  

[RobDraw]

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@NigelParsons4560wrote:

You must be responding to a different thread as this one is about how grid lines prevent some from producing quality documents, but I've yet to see any examples.

Exactly the attitude that sent me looking for alternate BIM software in the first place.

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What attitude? This thread is about grid lines preventing people from producing quality documents, but no one has provided any examples.

[chrisplyler]

Er. Mer. Gerd.

Do you just not believe the condition exists, or what?

See below image wherein the halftoned column line 'nB' obscures the black exterior line of the wall. Sure, I can work around it. I can thicken the wall line so that it shows up around the column line (but don't want to, and still looks ugly), I can choose a line type for column lines that is more space (but don't want to), I can split the column so that it isn't there for most of the obscured distance, etc. Can I produce a drawing that is adequate for construction? Sure. But you act like it's a bad thing to ask for the ability I would prefer.

[Anonymous]

@chrisplyler @RobDraw

Yeah, exactly.  I'm willing to bet that every single person on this thread asking about how to do this is having trouble creating quality documents efficiently because of this issue.  I certainly am.  I bet I'll eventually find a way around it, but it will take more work and be more frustrating.  I don't see a point in sharing an example with @RobDraw.  If I did, it would mirror what @chrisplyler showed.  A grid line essentially completely obscuring a wall line.

[Anonymous]

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@loboarchwrote:

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@Anonymouswrote:

Unless I am able to get your method to work, I think my only option would be to use grid lines with a gap, adjust the gap to the outermost surface of the exterior walls (unfortunately the grid gap adjustment doesn't snap), then draw in the grid lines with model or detail lines where the building doubles back on itself (where there are openings within the building perimeter).  Any better ideas?

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You could create gridlines with a gap and then add some model lines to "replace" the center section of a gridline. Now align/lock the model lines to the gridlines with gaps.  Now any elements you place that overlap the gridline will hide the gridline. Not super effecient, but gridlines are not somethign you are adding all the time to a project, so it is pretty low frequency. Not completly "automatic" but not all that bad if this kind of graphic look is important to you. In AutoCAD you probably have to do about the same amount of manipulation to achieve the look.

Here is an example showing columns, walls, and a table all hiding gridlines behind them.

  

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Very helpful, thank you.

[RobDraw]

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@chrisplylerwrote:

Er. Mer. Gerd.

Do you just not believe the condition exists, or what?

Sure. But you act like it's a bad thing to ask for the ability I would prefer.

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• Stop making assumptions and maybe you will not get so frustrated. I never said that I didn't think it exists. If you had read the entire thread, you would have noticed that I acknowledged it does exist and there are many other graphic issues early on. These graphic issues should be common knowledge as they have been around since I started using Revit. We all know about them and have our own pet peeves about particular ones. Some of us find ways to deal with them. Some give up and blame Revit. IMHO, being inflexible to change your standards and/or the use occasional workaround is just lazy.
• Bad thing for you to ask? Not at all. Where did you get that from?
• Let me just add one more thing. This is a user help forum. Not a wish list, idea forum, or an Autodesk bashing forum. It's a place to ask for solutions from other users or to answer those questions. Anything more than that might get you responses that you don't like. If you want only opinions like your own, post them in a more appropriate forum.

Good luck, one and all.

[chrisplyler]

@RobDraw

I sort of agree with the points you make.

Except that I think you have to admit your repeated request for someone to submit an example might suggest of an attitude of derision.

And except that if you can say we're lazy for not wanting to use a small work-around, we can say Autodesk is lazy for not quickly making a simple tweak.

[RobDraw]

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@chrisplylerwrote:

@RobDraw

I sort of agree with the points you make.

Except that I think you have to admit your repeated request for someone to submit an example might suggest of an attitude of derision.

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Thank you, but I was really wondering how detrimental it was to the quality of peoples' drawings. By comparison to other issues, it's a minor inconvenience for me. I was actually surprised about any resistance to that request.

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@chrisplylerwrote:

@RobDraw

And except that if you can say we're lazy for not wanting to use a small work-around, we can say Autodesk is lazy for not quickly making a simple tweak.

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Food for thought.

Since this behavior is common to just about everything annotative in Revit and if it were really such a simple tweak (programmatically), do you really think that AutoDesk has actually decided not to just throw it into an update for so many years?

[gtarch]

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@ToanDNwrote:
A quirk with Revit is that halftoned elements tend to take priority over fulltoned counterparts, especially when print. That is the reason I never use halftone for grids and levels.

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-->and that is why you do grid lines with one of the dashed styles.

because a dashed line won't fully mask out the thing underneath it, whether it's gray or blue or black. I do mine in gray.

I personally think that it's clearer / better to see the grid lines intersecting at the center of a column, especially big fat ones like some of the posted examples, but different strokes right? everone has their own opinion after all.

honestly, tools are tools. learn the tools, and adapt to them. if the thing you are trying do with the tool can't be done, usually it's best to do something else with the tools that the tools do well. If it's really important, look for new tools. This paricular one does not seem worthy of a tool switch, but different strokes right? everone has their own opinion after all.

We all know Revit has a lot of holes and they dole out the measly improvements in the most miserly way possible, whatever. But anyone talking about how they miss the halcyon days of AutoCAD's glory is smoking crack in my book.

[RobDraw]

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@gtarchwrote:

But anyone talking about how they miss the glory of AutoCAD's graphic swellness is smoking crack in my book.

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AutoCAD isn't all it's cracked up to be, either. Dare I mention wipeouts?

[gtarch]

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@RobDrawwrote:

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@gtarchwrote:

But anyone talking about how they miss the glory of AutoCAD's graphic swellness is smoking crack in my book.

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AutoCAD isn't all it's cracked up to be, either. Dare I mention wipeouts?

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--> and how about 395 xrefs to put out a simple set of drawings. then needing to update even a simple text style across all of them...

[ToanDN]

<devil advocate suite on>

--> and how about 395 xrefs to put out a simple set of drawings. then needing to update even a simple text style across all of them...

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It is about the same as updating all text and label styles for tag and other annotation families in Revit.  Updating such in AutoCAD is actually easier with CAD Standards checker and LISP/Script.

<strip suite off>

[Corsten.Au]

you can customise the grids.. keep the ends visible

and the central part can be in ( White colour ) to make it invisible..

Usually I keep it light grey the way I showed to keep it clear off the building elements...

Cheers!