Post & Beam Practices

[millerew17]

Hello All,

I need some help with this "Pole Barn" exterior. Draw it like you build it! I'm using REVIT LT 2018.1

1. I made a wall sweep for my siding and however it  covers my window but cuts around my sweep trim. I unchecked the window brick mould, extended my window depth and added my own trim( sweep). The siding is offset out  -  1 1/2" for the 2x4 purlins.  Have my boxes checked for "Cuts Wall" & Cut by Insert". 

2. For the purlins I use structural framing. Is this the best strategy? 

3. Any advice on the gable wall sweep? Is there a screencast for one like this?

Thanks again as always!

[Sahay_R]

Regarding the Siding - why not add an outer layer to your wall with a siding pattern to it instead of doing the sweep?

Plan B - edit the window family and add a void to it so that it cuts through the sweep. Nest it into the window family from another family.

[millerew17]

If I build the purlin space into my wall (1 1/2") then how would I show the purlins @ 2' O.C. ? Also in Post & Beam construction the walls are infilled between the posts & beams. Lots of segments to cover. 

[Sahay_R]

One way to build the purlin space into the wall would be this - 

Very honestly, I have never known anyone to draw each and every member. Over-modeling, IMHO.

The other would be to edit the window family, and nest the void into it. That would allow you to create the wall with as many layers as you want.

Or - creat a curtain wall, with posts as the mullions, and the wall as a panel.

[barthbradley]

Don't put your Poles in the wall. Place them at grid intersections. You need to keep them as separate components as everything (floors, walls, roof) tie into them in Pole construction. 

[millerew17]

That's what I did. I started with a grid for a 40x80 building and placed
the walls inside each post.
Everything was going smooth until this sweep covered my window.

[chrisplyler]

I'm not at work, so I can't check your file, but...

Did you create the sweep using the Sweeps button that is available while editing the wall type's structure? Or did you create a sweep using the Wall Sweep tool on the ribbon? If you did the latter, then fenestrations are not going to automatically cut through it.

[barthbradley]

Chris, just to help you understand: @millerew17 used a wall sweep to apply the finish layer to the wall – in this case, an 18’-6” tall sweep profile representing the cross-sectional height of the metal siding covering the wall. Get the picture? Okay...

[chrisplyler]

Okay, I've had a chance to open the file.

I figured the Wall Sweep was used because you were going to actually show 3D shape of siding. Since you aren't doing that, but instead just have a flat sweep with a material pattern of vertical lines, you could have just made it part of the wall structure instead.

[millerew17]

I used the siding sweep so I could plant it on top of the 2x4 purlins so my sections show the purlins & so forth. Also I want to be able to show a full framing package of the building in 3D.  

What I can't figure out is why the wall sweep cuts around the window trim sweep & window itself but leaves the inner section of siding? Now I did also get a warning about a sweep overlapping another sweep. 

Thanks

(Got a busy day outside of office so I may be late to respond for the next 6 hours)

[chrisplyler]

Okay, lets define a few things - withing the context of using Revit - so we can be on the same page.

1. structural framing - how you ought to build your framing; not considered a "wall" element in Revit

2. wall - an organized set of continuous material layers; not useful for specific framing members

Okay. So a window family will natively cut an opening for itself through its host wall, but not through an independent wall sweep. So your "siding" should really be modeled as a wall...just a wall type with a single core layer of the appropriate thickness and material (with your vertical line pattern to represent the siding visually). That's it. Then your windows need to host into that wall, and they will cut their openings appropriately. And your "framing" should be constructed with structural framing families just inside the siding wall.

In this way you can have a Framing Elevation...

...and an Architectural Elevation...

PS - Oh my goodness, your window family is very heavy.

[millerew17]

Hi Chris,

I think I'm getting this now! But correct me if I'm miss something 😉

For this type of building and what I want to achieve, I must move between "Disciplines" more than I've been. 

1. Start with Grids then add Columns (posts) then add purlins ...trusses, etc. Think Structural! 

2. Set up my architectural walls accordingly. Leaving an 1 1/2" space for my purlins  so my wall depth is correct.  I had it in my head that my walls had to go from post to post so I didn't get an "Overlap Warning" thus making the siding sweeps. I see from your response that a structural element is not a wall element, so that wasn't the right way to go.

Two question for you:

1. For the roof I had structural framing trusses then added my 2x4 purlins then made a basic roof that was only the 1" thickness of the metal roofing. Should I have made the roof the thickness of my top chord + purlin 1 1/2" space and then like the walls two different elements no overlap issues?

2. What should I do for adding trim such as windows, doors, wall outside corners & etc. Make sweeps? Plant on top?

Thanks so much!

[chrisplyler · Accepted solution]

The only thing you have to switch disciplines of is your framing elevations and roof framing plan if you have them. Structural Framing Elevations, unlike regular Elevations, are by necessity associated to a grid line. So yeah, you should have a grid everywhere you expect to have framing and a view of it.

The only thing needing stand-alone sweeps might be exterior corner trim, rake trim, ridge vent, etc. Windows and doors ought to have all their trim built in, generally speaking.

Here, watch this...

[millerew17]

This screencast is a GREAT help! Thanks so much for all the help! 

And yes those downloaded windows are slow and heavy. They had a removable brickmould and the ability to toggle  the top grilles off/on . I really need to get a simple window family. The OOTB ones are OK with me except for those two things. This particular client changes up those grille patterns all the time.

Thanks again!