phase mapping and visibility of linked model

[mgrandbois]

Hi,

were experiencing a problem in a project we're working with multidisciplinary models.

We have model from various external firm. We have to link all the model together in our architectural model.

The project is split in 5 phases so elements in the model can be created and/or demolished in any of the phases of the project.

All of the model have the same phases created and the phase mapping have been done for the linked models.

The problem we have : the phase filter don't show correctly for the linked model.

Let's say an example : If we put a view to phase to phase 1 and set up that vierw phase filter to show previous + demo we don't see the demo item from the linked model with the visibility overrides given in the model. In fact we see both new and demo item from the linked model.

The only solution we have found is to create a new common phase filter fot the project in all the model and apply this phase filter when we linlked the model together.

My questions are

Are we doing the right method?

And

Is there any official document for this from Autodesk?

[mgrandbois]

@sara

See the solution above.

Phase filters and overrides are not working between your models because they are not coordinated.

Doing overrides by view is not a way I recommend.

This is something that should be coordinated and that need to work in the whole projets,

Also, i'm not sure but if your models is to be pushed into Navisworks this coordination have to be done anyway...

[sara]

Thank you. I was really hoping to get Autodesk to respond to your solution about aligning the spelling of phase filters. I believed their response and direction was inaccurate (or at best incomplete) when Autodesk directed to set the Phase Filter by Host view without mentioning that caveat. 

[ToanDN]

As a workaround, you can Transfer Project Standards to bring Phase settings from one to another, choose New only when it asks if you want Override.  That will bring the Phase Filters from one file to another without affecting what already exists.  Then, override Phase Filter by Host View will work.

[Anonymous]

Funny how Autodesk stubbornly refuses to admit the feature is broken, agreed that the quick fix is to transfer project standards. Just have to remember to do it every time you link a new coordination model.

[Anonymous]

I am facing this situation  also. Makes me wonder what's the point of the feature called 'Phase Mapping'? that feature should match a phase regardless of the language. This is annoying

[Anonymous]

The name of the Phases in either file are irrelevant. However, the quantity does matter for Phase Mapping to work as anticipated. Phase Mapping simply aligns Phases in the Host file to Phases in the Linked file by name. Communication regarding naming conventions of Phases across files should’ve been discussed at the onset of the project to eliminate the confusion. The bigger challenge is Phase Filters. The Phase Filters can wreak problems if they are not set consistently across files. Transfer Project Standards can assist in eliminating misaligned Phase Settings in your Phase Filters. Here again, communication is critical to firm it all up.

At which point, Phase fidelity should be easily maintained across files. The easiest way to ensure visibility and graphical stability of the models in a given view at a given Phase, I leverage linked views. Views in a Linked file retain their Phase and Phase Filter settings amongst other view properties. For example, if you’re Host view is conveying demolition within a given Phase, link the appropriate demolition view from the Linked file. When you link a view your Host view’s properties no longer apply to the Linked file. All you’ll need to do is ensure that your view’s Phase and Phase Filter are set properly. If it is difficult to identify which linked view to leverage, have each model author create distinct views in their file to be linked across models.

[Anonymous]

Lots of workarounds and excuses for what is effectively a broken feature that has gone unresolved for years.

[sara]

It is the coordination of the Phase filters aligning perfecting in spelling that trips up the system. If we can phase map revit links, maybe mapping filters is a needed addition to get around the api coding. 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the response- The challenge is the guys we are working with are in France; communication is challenging- It's just annoying that seemingly small stuffs like this in Revit becomes an issue

[Anonymous]

Chris,

I don’t see it as an Autodesk problem. The funny thing is, the feature is not broken when it is left alone and users are properly trained on how the process of Phases works. When users customize their settings and don’t communicate to the rest of the team the changes they made, it’s the communication that’s broken.

Somebody on the entire team must be held accountable for setting the stage on how everyone should use Phases effectively. Documenting the settings and process is a legitimate solution. It’s called a BIM Project Execution Plan and, it spells out processes and how they’ll be globally executed. Remember, Revit is designed for BIM. BIM is a model-based process. Not to be cliche but, if the team fails to plan what and how processes will be used, prepare yourself for those processes to fail.

[Anonymous]

Sara,

You’re exactly right! Transfer Project Standards works great if the Phase Filter names remain untouched. That way, tweaks to Phase Settings can be properly migrated from Linked file to the Host. The bigger challenge I mentioned to Chris is documenting them for the entire team so that they can anticipate them. If the language barrier presents a challenge (such as in Femi’s post), it is all the more reason to document the process and how it will be used.

[Anonymous]

I hear you Chris. What I don't get is the point of the 'Mapping'

[Anonymous]

Femi,

Think about Levels for a minute. Plan views in the Host file cannot be generated from linked Levels. So, we create the same Levels in the Host project. For example, the Linked file has Level 3 but, the Host file does not. Therefore, the Host file needs Level 3. That way, we can generate Plan views in the Host file for Level 3. This process of having corresponding Levels in both files can be considered "mapping." Many consultants use Copy/Monitor to accomplish this mapping.

Phase Mapping is no different. If the Linked file has Phase 1, 2, and 3 but your Host file only has Phase 1 and 2, how will you be able to view Phase 3? Therefore, you need to create Phase 3 in the Host file to map to Phase 3 in the Linked file. 

Remember, Phases are points in the timeline of your project. If the timeline in one file differs from the timeline in the other, those points in time will not be mapped. Therefore, your views will not be able to view a particular point in time correctly or at all.

Sara's issue deals with the uncoordinated Phase Settings called Phase Filters and Graphic Overrides. Phase Filters define the visibility and graphical settings of elements per their Phase Status (Phase Created and Phased Demolished parameters). Each Filter contains options to set whether a particular Phase Status of an element is By Category, Overridden, or Not Displayed. When these do not map, the view may interpret the display of elements differently between files.

[Anonymous]

Phase mapping is fine and reasonable for a multi-building site where each building has its own "new construction" phase and the main site has a different phase for each building. Phase mapping isn't problematic, although it is in a needlessly obscure location in the interface. What IS a problem is the stupidly brittle mechanism by which EACH MODEL has to have IDENTICAL phase filters. This is actually a basic design flaw not just of phase filters but of the entire display system for linked models: the language of the default display properties for linked files, "By Host View", would give any reasonable person the impression that the linked model is displayed according to the graphic settings of the host view. However, for lineweights and phase filters, among other things, the link actually displays according to the settings in the linked model, and only superficially appears to be following the settings of the same name in the host model. That's the real problem. The software should facilitate a logical and flexible process, not require a rigid process with a frustrating and non-intuitive failure mode when the “correct” process is not followed to the letter by every single team member.

[Anonymous]

Chris,

You may want to take a look at this forum: https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/revit-ideas/idb-p/302

Submit your ideas on how to make the Phases feature better. Get them voted up!

You can also contact your Reseller to see if they can get you involved in the Autodesk Feedback Community for Revit: https://beta.autodesk.com/welcome/

As of late, it seems that the Factory is invested in developing Revit for Fabrication and cloud-collaboration processes. Who knows, they might implement your ideas. We finally have dual monitor support. It's been an idea since I started in Revit Building 8.

[cdorneyDSNUH]

Has this been solved? I'm working on a project which is a bridge between two other projects, both of which have several phases and unique overrides that are irrelevant to this smaller bridge project. I need a solution other than changing phase settings on 15 models (and needing to make copies of them at that) in order to override things by phase. It does not make sense that the Phase Graphic Overrides don't hold to the phase mapping setup, but from what I can tell this is still how it works.

[ToanDN]

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@cdorneyDSNUH wrote:

Has this been solved? I'm working on a project which is a bridge between two other projects, both of which have several phases and unique overrides that are irrelevant to this smaller bridge project. I need a solution other than changing phase settings on 15 models (and needing to make copies of them at that) in order to override things by phase. It does not make sense that the Phase Graphic Overrides don't hold to the phase mapping setup, but from what I can tell this is still how it works.

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Phase Filter Names must be identical between the host model and the linked model the you should have any issues.

[cdorneyDSNUH]

It's really unfortunate that this is how Revit behaves. In large complex projects where there are a lot of stakeholders or parts that we do not have control over via BEP, it creates significant extra work. 

But thanks for confirming, good to know before investing the time.